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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 4962--------------------------------------------------
Suitable For Framing: Various Elements Of The Frame Up Theories
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 24, 2025, 9:34 am
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One of the most prominent, if not the most well-known, elements
in the 'Police Frame' theory is that the NYPD had to
prove they were superior, as a force, to the London
constabulary. Several articles featuring attorneys, a judge, and
a few police officials from New York were already on record,
comparing the London police unfavorably with 'New York's
Finest' dating back to the beginning of the Whitechapel Murders
and wasn't confined to the authorities, but also newspapers.
This sort of one-upmanship didn't affect the coordination
between the two cities whenever one needed the other to assist
in an investigation. Inspector Byrnes assisted the Met in late
1888 by keeping tabs on Francis Tumblety. In July 1910,
the NYPD sent two detectives to coordinate searches of incoming
ships when it was thought that H. H.Crippen and Ethel
Le Neve may have sailed to Manhattan. They were Detectives Moody
& Leeson, the two who escorted Ali to the La Touraine
in April 1902. So the newspaper-jousting....the sabre
rattling....wasn't serious. The NYPD had nothing to prove in
their
apprehension of Ali.
Another element is that Ali didn't try to escape the city or run
off. On first glance, that seems to be a good point in favor of
him having nothing to fear....being casually picked up in front
of a liquor store on the corner of James Slip and Water Street
on the day Brown's corpse was discovered.
However, serial killers such as Alfred Knapp ( Cincinnati,
between 1894 and 1902) made no effort whatsoever to avoid the
police. A case in Manhattan during April 1891 that De Lancey
Nicoll was engaged in prosecuting, the murder of Emily Taylor
by Henry Fanning, featured Fanning being picked up casually in
his home, sleeping, although he confessed to his roommate.
In modern times, the stupidity of the BTK killer led to his
apprehension.
The truth is, many killers either become involved peripherally
with the investigation or, like arsonists, stand in the crowd
watching their handiwork. Its one reason why funerals are filmed
by the police, and arsons are often filmed by authorities in
the United States.
It may have been a mistake on Inspector Byrnes' part or an
actual fact, but Ali was alleged to have gone back to the hotel
on the 24th as Byrnes put it," to see the lay of the land". He
may have been told this by someone other than a policeman,
because he was arrested on James & Water, but did he go back as
suggested here by Byrnes?
Another element in the frame-up theory is that the police
convicted Ali. Anyone familiar with the courts and trials knows
a jury
convicts or acquits, not the police.
If there had been pressure from the police, Ali would have been
given a first degree sentence....and a date with the hot seat.
Another was the question as to why he would remain in the hotel
until 5 am if he had murdered someone. This was brought up
on April 30th in the NY Evening World.
Actually, leaving at 5 am was irrelevant. Both Room 33 and 31
were occupied, meaning the hotel staff wouldn't be coming around
to wake tenants until around 9 am, over four hours after Ali
left the hotel.
What is worth considering is the manner in which he was seen
leaving the hotel by Eddie Fitzgerald, as if he was sneaking
out.
The 'faulty medical evidence' theory doesn't float either. None
of the defense medical experts disagreed with what Formad and
Flint found...although Gibier disputed the claim that tyrosine
could only be found in the liver. In any event, defense medical
expert
Justin Herold made a reference in agreement with and to the
prosecution doctors' findings in one of his works.
Opinions, as always, welcome. ;)
#Post#: 4967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Suitable For Framing: Various Elements Of The Frame Up
Theories
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: July 25, 2025, 2:57 pm
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I don't think the police tried to frame Ali. The supposed
rivalry with London was newspaper hyperbole, it seems to me.
The police had a solid case against Ali, strengthened by Ali's
own mistakes, stupidities and lies. As I've said elsewhere, I
think the defence team was subpar, as well.
I don't think Ali went back to the hotel. I remember the
comment, but there does not seem to be anything backing it up,
and it wasn't brought up at trial. I think it was a
misunderstanding or miscommunication in those early days.
I agree that Ali not fleeing means nothing. He may have thought
no-one knew him - most of the staff at the hotel stated they'd
never seen him before that week.
I do think him not leaving the hotel is weird. If he was the
killer, I mean. If he'd killed Brown, I would think he'd have
enough selvpreservation to want to leave quickly.
Of course, as you say it's not certain - he could have been
waiting for quiet.
#Post#: 4971--------------------------------------------------
Re: Suitable For Framing: Various Elements Of The Frame Up
Theories
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 25, 2025, 4:33 pm
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I don't think the police tried to frame Ali. The supposed
rivalry with London was newspaper hyperbole, it seems to me.
Neither do I, Pete.....although I wish to God we knew what
Clubber Williams was referring to in those two letters to Odell.
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