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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 3559--------------------------------------------------
Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: November 1, 2024, 5:33 pm
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Essential facts about Carrie Brown
Born:
56 years old at the time of her death. Born in 1834 or 1835.
Information from Salem ( Mass)
Undertaker Frank Smith or her daughter Ellen to Coroner
Schultze, late April 1891, indicated that she was
born in either 1834 ( with her birthday pending which would have
made her 57 later on in 1891) or 1835
( she had celebrated her birthday earlier in the year). Jenkins
stated she was 56 at the Coroner's Inquest.
Her August 1850 US census listing states she was 17 years old in
that year.
Full Name:
Ellen Caroline Montgomery Father John - Mother Mary
Location:
England ( from cemetery records).
City: Liverpool from cemetery records.
Ancestry:
English
Father - John
Mother - Mary
One report ( Brooklyn Daily Eagle, May 3rd, 1891 ) has
Undertaker Frank Smith
telling authorities that Carrie's parents were both Danish, John
and Mary, and
that she had left her husband fifteen years earlier. She left
her husband years earlier than
that since he had been dead for 18 years by the time of her
death. Charles Brown
was Danish. The statement given by Smith to the reporter might
have been misinterpreted
by the reporter, possibly conflating the ethnicity of the
parents with that of her husband.
This is the only report I know of in which a first name is
provided for Carrie's father. Based on
that, this explains the 'undetermined' entry for Carrie's
father's first name.
Family:
Husband Charles was born on January 1, 1829, in Copenhagen,
Denmark
Arrived in United States ( New York) May 3rd, 1847
Met Carrie in Brooklyn and married her there, almost certainly
in 1949. Month and day of marriage unknown.
Both lived in Salem, Mass. by 1849. She was either 14 or 15
years old.
Charles E. Brown died off the coast of West Africa in 1873 on
the brig Elizabeth
Children Mary (eldest) Anna ( youngest) Charles ( second-born
who died in 1859)
Note: Charles, her husband, was born, according to the 1880
census, in Schleswig, Germany.
Resting Place:
Harmony Grove, Salem, Mass
Residence in Salem:
Becket Street
Residences in New York:
49 Oliver - Mary Harrington stated Brown had once lived at her
house
in a newspaper report
86 James Street - Lived with a man named One-Eyed Frank or
One-Eyed
Tony
92-94 Cherry Street at "Mother" Olsen's
318 East 27th Street- Police Matron remembered her at this
address
from the late 1870s
304 Mulberry Street - St. Barnabas Home- according to Capt.
Richard
O'Connor, 4th Precinct
James Slip - Mother Shiply's 'House of A Hundred Sorrows'
May have lived in Brooklyn at 131 South Third Street (
information from
a St. Barnabas Home matron) during the 1880s or late 1870s.
Work History:
John Flomer - 870 Forest - Flomer was a grocer. Carrie may have
worked as a domestic for the family, however.
William Furman - 161st Street- Job description not known
There is a William Furman in the New York City Directory
1891-1892 edition who had a produce market
John Morrison- 6th Avenue restaurant
St. Barnabas Home-
Capt. O'Connor told a New York Herald reporter on April 25th
that Carrie had worked ' more or less as a domestic' indicating
she probably had more work situations than those listed.
Nicknames:
Shakespeare and Jeff Davis.
Most sources refer to her as 'Old
Shakespeare' beginning in 1891.
It is highly likely that the 'Old' was an
add-on since there were
two other women in the Lower East Side known
as 'Shakespeare'
and who were younger.
#Post#: 3561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: November 1, 2024, 5:50 pm
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Miscellaneous Items:
Her last meal was at George's on Roosevelt & Water Street, 4:30
pm, April 23rd with Alice Sullivan.
Additional information to follow soon.
In the meantime, if others have material they'd care to share,
please do.
Thanks.
#Post#: 3617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: November 7, 2024, 10:36 am
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Late add-on:
This Boston Globe reports that Carrie told John Flomer ( his
name was not John Flower)
she was from Canada.
Boston Globe
April 27, 1891
************
HTML https://i.imgur.com/aPwoTBR.jpg
#Post#: 4850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 3, 2025, 1:05 pm
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If you're new to the case, you may not be aware that Carrie
Brown was also referred to as 'Jeff Davis', the
former President of the Confederacy.
This article mentions that Brown was a defender of the 'Lost
Cause' and based on her leanings, she was tagged with
that name.
If you look at her face, she resembles Jeff Davis....opening the
possibility that that's why she was given that nickname.
Her husband was a Union seaman in the Civil War.
Mary Phillips and Annie Campbell were also known by the nickname
'Shakespeare', if the newspaper reports were accurate.
Both died in 1892.
New York Times
April 26, 1891
************
HTML https://i.imgur.com/U8ltx3W.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/MczzUqU.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/DL96ceN.png
#Post#: 4852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: July 4, 2025, 6:37 am
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Sitting at the poolside in Italy, I note there are some photos
online of the Central Baptist Church in Salem, where Carrie
Brown was allegedly active in the 1850s:
HTML https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:2b88r0306
HTML https://digitalrepository.salemstate.edu/handle/20.500.13013/1704
HTML https://digitalrepository.salemstate.edu/handle/20.500.13013/1706
#Post#: 4853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 4, 2025, 6:44 am
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Thanks Pete! I added a photo of the church in the first edition
of the book.
These are interesting.....hope your visit has been fun!
#Post#: 4855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: July 4, 2025, 7:13 am
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Ok, I’m just on my phone so I don’t have access to the book at
present.
The holiday is fine, staying with my in-laws, good food and
obligatory visits to distant relatives etc.
Not the vacation I’d choose myself but unfortunately my wife has
a say as well :)
#Post#: 4857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 4, 2025, 7:30 am
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but unfortunately my wife has a say as well....
Don't they always? :D :D :D
#Post#: 5270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: August 21, 2025, 12:59 pm
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As if shit isn't confusing enough, here comes another one down
the pike.
Carrie Brown's age, according to two sources, has her at 56 at
the time of her death
Dr. Jenkins wrote down that she was 56 on a report handed over
to Coroner Schultz.
Mary Ellen Allen(Brown) provided authorities in New York City
with her age on April 29th.
Therefore, and if this is correct.....she was born in 1834 or
1835.
1835 if she already had her 56th birthday by the time of her
death
or 1834 if she had yet to celebrate her 57th birthday in 1891.
However......
Several news reports state that after five years, Capt. Brown
became a happy father with the
arrival of a baby daughter. Mary Ellen was born in 1854. This
is a guaranteed fact.
Subtracting five years from 1854 gives us 1849.
Is 1849 the year in which Carrie was married?
If so, she was, by using the age given by her daughter when she
came to pick up her mother's body
....married at the age of 14, if she was born in 1835...or 15,
if she was born in 1834.
Or was she, as some reports have declared, born in 1832?
This would mean she was 58 or 59 when she died. 58 if born in
1832 and not arriving at her 59th birthday in 1891,
or 58, having already reached that age by the time of her death.
Could she have married at such a young age? Perhaps she was
superannuated, like many people from that period.
Some reports claim she was a year younger than Charles, which is
false. He was at least 3 or 5-6 years older than her.
#Post#: 5472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carrie Brown 101
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: September 7, 2025, 3:03 am
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--- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
>
> If you're new to the case, you may not be aware that Carrie
Brown was also referred to as 'Jeff Davis', the
> former President of the Confederacy.
>
> This article mentions that Brown was a defender of the 'Lost
Cause' and based on her leanings, she was tagged with
> that name.
>
> If you look at her face, she resembles Jeff Davis....opening
the possibility that that's why she was given that nickname.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Looking for a Byrnes-article, I came across this explanation of
her Jeff Davis nickname that I don't think I've seen before: she
was an outspoken rebel:
[attachimg=1]
Spokane Daily Chronicle May 4 1891
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