URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
  HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: 1901-1902
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 2293--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 6:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Howard, leaving aside the issue of the descriptions of C. Niclo
       and the farmhand for the moment. It seems your explanation for
       Damon’s key is he lied, he produced the key himself and spun a
       phony story of an unverifiable farmhand. He did this in order to
       help free Ali. I’m not sure why he would be very interested in
       that, given that he consistently badmouths him. Were he on a
       mission to help, would he not speak more highly of him?
       ********* Pete...setting the provenance of the key aside, the
       major issue has to be the description which nullifies his
       farmhand from being C. Kniclo. The issue of the key will have to
       be a matter of us agreeing to disagree for the time being.
       Damon, like the thousands of others in the Manhattan area, may
       have been approached by someone over the span of a decade, just
       as several other business owners ( we have their letters, all
       uniform in content, and almost appearing as if written by same
       person going on the content of these letters) were approached.
       He could have been bitten by the bug to free Ali as other
       businessmen were.
       If not for Ali's sake, then perhaps for some reason that would
       benefit him financially. Credit where it's due, this latter idea
       was Professor Dekles'.
       To me, the idea that Damon faked the key presents insurmountable
       obstacles. For instance, if Damon lied, does that not mean that
       Lee and Brennan also deliberately and knowingly lied? Since they
       claim to have been informed by Damon and to have seen the key in
       1891.
       ****************I doubt that a secret between three people could
       remain that long, but to answer your question, yes. I can easily
       envision a friend for nearly two decades ( Lee) and an employee
       for fifteen years (Brennan) backing up a friend and employer,
       respectively, on something like this.
       It really didn't require much for it to work. If their stories
       were close enough in content, it certainly was beneficial for
       the plan to work.
       The letter from Governor Voorhees to Governor Odell essentially
       gave Damon a get out of trouble card. It can't be underestimated
       how much of an impact that it had in Damon being perceived as an
       honest man. The fact that Damon had his two long-time friends
       filing affidavits, in my opinion, was the reason the Damon
       household was exempt from filing their versions of the events in
       April 1891. The fact that Damon not only can't remember his
       maid's last name ( Mary Nasbit) or Henry's surname and that "at
       this point in time, it would be impossible for me to locate
       them", the authorities, with that letter from Voorhees and the
       two friend's affidavits, just let it go. Just like they let him
       go with the bogus description of the farmhand. The ten-year gap
       in time was in my opinion the reason for several things in the
       story being accepted or glossed over. Without the ten-year gap,
       I don't think Damon would have ever even thought of coming
       forward. I don't see the possibility of Damon fabricating a
       phony key as an insurmountable obstacle.
       For what purpose would they lie? Freeing Ali? Brennan was an
       employee, still a bit hard to accept that he’d submit a
       bald-faced lie as an affidavit just to prop up Damon’s fake
       story.
       *********** I can tell you here or to your face that I would
       back up a fake story for a friend if it did not in any way harm
       me or anyone else.
       Their backing up Damon's story was no sweat off their ass. It
       hurt no one, rather it helped someone ( Damon).  There was no
       way for the authorities to investigate their individual stories
       UNLESS they were subjected to cross-examination, individually,
       like from Wellman or Nicoll. Conveniently, neither attorney was
       in office ten years later. We can rest assured that both of the
       trial lawyers would have challenged the story.
       People have been paid off for phony affidavits in far more
       serious situations, often covering someone who committed a
       capital or high financial crime. This was kid's stuff.
       What of the risk involved to Damon, he could not know that he
       would not be castigated or punished for withholding evidence- he
       could of course hope for it and use his NJ contacts to mitigate
       risk, but there was no way to know in advance.
       And Lee - lying for a friend, while knowing that besides Damon
       and his wife, at least two servants at large would know he was
       lying - how could he know they would not be tracked down or come
       forward?
       ************You are exactly right and I mention this in the
       book. How could Damon not know that he would not be roasted for
       his delay in coming forward after ten years?  He couldn't UNLESS
       he had the full support of New York newspapers (  4 reporters or
       former reporters wrote supportive affidavits on different
       matters) and a DA (Philbin) who had been informed that Damon was
       a 'goodfella" based on the letter his superior, Governor Odell,
       received BEFORE his coming forward. That is how he managed to
       wiggle out of any criticism EXCEPT for those two out-of-town
       papers ( Buffalo and Washington). That no New York newspaper or
       New York-based social reformer (The People newspaper, Jacob
       Riis, or Charles Russell, for example) said one word about the
       delay, EVER, is an example of them not wanting to make waves.
       Most of the newspapers were grateful he came out, and of course,
       the French were too. On the other hand, if one paper did come
       out and criticize Damon for the ten-year gap, the newspaper
       would appear ungrateful for Damon 'righting a wrong', and
       possibly face a backlash.
       How about how the story broke? A casual conversation, a chance
       meeting with a lawyer involved with the case. It wasn’t even
       Damon who offered his story.
       ***********This story tends towards being apocryphal. I think it
       was. No attorney ever came forward to identify himself as being
       the person, who by accident, set the wheels in motion. It would
       require no great thinking or planning for Lee to approach an
       attorney and bring up the key/farmhand story and be brought up
       at the request of Damon to test the waters. Since Lee did not
       mention Damon's name, if this attorney said, "Man, your buddy is
       in some deep shit if your story is true.", Damon had nothing to
       worry about because, again, Lee did not mention his name. Had
       Lee been told that his friend would face some sort of
       retribution, then I think it's safe to say Damon would have
       never come forward, regardless if the story was true or false.
       In short, Howard, I’m wondering how you think the process went
       and how Damon managed to get everyone in line, supporting his
       lies?
       I cannot see it happening, to be honest.
       Check this out, Pete:
       According to what Damon swore to in his first affidavit, we have
       the following to go by as a sort of timeline.
       Unfortunately, it is not an iron-clad guarantee that things took
       place in exactly the same way outlined below but they are a
       close approximation:
       Thursday evening, the 23rd, the farmhand goes to Manhattan.
       Brown is murdered at the hotel.
       Friday, the 24th, the murder has been announced in the papers
       and heard via Manhattan tom-toms. Everyone is aware of it.
       Including Damon.
       The farmhand had come home early on the 24th but was unable to
       work at the time Damon was up preparing for work and heading off
       to work in New York that morning.
       Saturday, the 25th, the farmhand is still in Cranford.  Day one
       of the two days that the farmhand would remain there after the
       murder as Damon stated in his first affidavit.
       Also on the 25th, the five major New York newspapers provided
       not only information about Ali but included his description.
       They were the Sun, Times, Tribune, Herald, and Evening World,
       not counting newspapers with smaller circulation figures.
       Sunday, the 26th,  The farmhand leaves Cranford, this being the
       second of the two days Damon swore the farmhand had stayed on
       after the murder.
       Monday, the 27th, Presuming that Damon did not work on Sundays,
       Damon comes home from work and is told about the key, shirt, and
       departure of the farmhand, possibly on the 27th after Damon
       heads off to work.  He put the key in his pocket in the evening
       and went to work on Tuesday, the 28th, where he took Brennan
       with him to the hotel that day.
       Although not earth-shattering, this latter bit of Damon's
       affidavit does not match what Brennan stated. As already
       mentioned, Brennan swore that the two went to the hotel the day
       after Damon had told him his story. Damon, as shown, swore in
       his affidavit that it was on the same day he told Brennan about
       the key and farmhand, going that day to the hotel.
       JOHN A. LEE  MAY 31ST,1901
       [[  I, John A. Lee, contractor, residing at Cranford, New
       Jersey, deposes and says:
       I am a resident of Cranford, State of New Jersey, and have been
       for twenty years. I am acquainted with Mr. George Damon, of the
       firm of Damon and Peets, and have known him for the past
       eighteen years.
       I heard and read about the murder of one 'Shakespeare' which
       took place in the City of New York in April, 1891.  A few days
       after the murder in question, I went riding with Mr. George
       Damon one afternoon to Scotch Plains.  Mr. George Damon then
       told me that one of his maid servants had found a shirt with
       blood stains on it and a key bearing the same number as the
       number of the room where Shakespeare had been murdered.  He said
       that the said articles had been found in the room upstairs in
       the stable which had been occupied by a man he had employed
       temporarily.
       Mr. Damon also told me that he would take the key to New York
       and compare it with the other keys in the hotel where the murder
       had been committed.
       When we returned home, Mr. Damon showed me the key which was an
       ordinary cheap key with a tag on it with corners clipped. The
       tag had the same number as the number of the room mentioned in
       the papers as being the one in which Shakespeare was murdered,
       but I cannot remember the exact denomination.
       I advised Mr. Damon to keep the matter quiet, as I did not
       believe that Frenchy could be convicted; moreover knowing the
       dangerous character of this man in question, I was afraid for
       the safety of my friend, Mr. Damon, and the safety of someone of
       his family, should the police fail to catch him.
       Shortly afterward Mr. Damon told me that he had gone to the
       hotel and compared the key and the said key was exactly the same
       as the keys on the key board in said hotel.]]
       Analysis of the Lee Affidavit:
       
       "A few days after the murder in question, I went riding with Mr.
       George Damon one afternoon to Scotch Plains.
       ......Mr. Damon also told me that he would take the key to New
       York and compare it with the other keys in the hotel where the
       murder had been committed."
       According to Damon back on May 20th, he went to the hotel with
       Brennan the morning after the maid gave him the key. He didn't
       just say it: He swore to it.
       In Lee's version, Lee claimed he had been riding in Scotch
       Plains with Damon a few days after the murder when Damon told
       him about the key and would eventually show him the key in his
       home.  Damon told Lee, at that time, that he was planning on
       taking the key to New York.
       Unless Damon decided to go riding in a carriage or on horseback
       five miles away in the dark, west of Cranford on the very
       evening he was informed of the key, shirt, and farmhand's
       departure with Lee, then there's an issue with Damon or Lee's
       affidavits.  This is out of kilter according to the timeline
       arrived at from Damon's affidavit, alone.
       Coincidentally, both Charles Brennan and John A. Lee clearly
       remembered a fair number of details about the day Damon shared
       his information ten years earlier, but neither remembered the
       number on the key.
       Concerning another curious remark made by Lee: How would John A.
       Lee know about the 'dangerous character' of the farmhand unless
       this inside dope came from Damon? The farmhand had only begun
       working at Damon's in March of 1891  Therefore, Lee's comment
       about  "knowing the dangerous character of this man in
       question..." if not contrived, had to have come from Damon.
       Additionally, why would Damon tell Lee he had a 'dangerous
       character' on his estate, yet continue to keep him on?  Damon,
       at no time, ever expresses any urgent need on his part to
       terminate the farmhand's services or ask the farmhand, this
       'dangerous character', to vacate the premises prior to the
       murder of Brown. In fact, Damon clearly expected this 'dangerous
       character' to be ready for work on the 24th of April, 1891
       CHARLES BRENNAN   MAY 9TH, 1901
       I, Charles Brennan, being duly sworn, deposes and says :
       [[ I am a truckman and have been doing the trucking business for
       Damon and Peets for 15 years.
       I heard and read about the murder of one Shakespeare attributed
       to one Frenchy alias Ben Ali.
       A few days after the murder, Mr. George Damon, of the firm of
       Damon and Peets, 44 Beekman Street, New York City, came to me in
       the store and told me that he believed that the real murderer of
       Shakespeare was a man by the name of 'Frank', who had been
       employed by him in Cranford, New Jersey, as a key had been found
       in his room bearing the same number as the number of the room in
       which Shakespeare had been killed and he requested me to go down
       to the hotel with him, as he was afraid to go in that locality
       alone.
       Mr. Damon and I went to the hotel the next day after this
       conversation. We sat down together at a table and asked for a
       cigar.
       Mr. Damon took out a key with a tag on it from his pocket and
       compared it in my presence with the keys on the keyboard. A
       moment later, a man came downstairs and laid a key on the bar.
       We got up and went to the bar and called for a glass of beer for
       the purpose of comparing the key close by, laying the keys side
       by side.
       After comparing the said keys, we found that the key in the
       possession of Mr. Damon was exactly the same as the one laid on
       the bar and those on the keyboard. My memory fails to remember
       the number on the key.
       After leaving the saloon, Mr. Damon and myself were satisfied
       that the key in his possession was the missing key of the room
       where the murder had been committed.]]
       Analysis of the Brennan Affidavit:
       Nothing in this affidavit appears to be out of kilter at that
       time.
       One remark to keep in mind is that Brennan states that after
       Damon first approached
       him and asked him to accompany him to the hotel, Brennan said
       they went the day
       after their conversation.
       #Post#: 2294--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 6:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       GEORGE DAMON  MAY 20TH, 1901 First Affidavit
       I, George Damon, being duly sworn, deposes and says:
       [[  I am a member of the firm of Damon and Peets, being engaged
       in the printing materials business, 44 Beekman Street, New York
       City, for the last
       thirty-three years. I heard and read of the murder of one,
       "Shakespeare", attributed to one "Frenchy", Amer Ben Ali which
       happened on the twenty-fourth
       day of April 1891. I was at that time and am still a resident of
       Cranford, New Jersey. Have lived there twenty-two years.
       I had some extra work to be done on my place in Cranford, in the
       spring of 1891, so I went down to Castle Garden and hired a man
       to assist my regular man, Henry.
       As near as I can recollect his name was 'Frank'. ( I do not
       remember his other name) and he took charge of my horses.
       The morning before I heard of the murder of "Shakespeare", I
       went to my stable and found only my regular man; it was about
       six o'clock in the morning,
       I asked him where the other man, "Frank' was and he said that
       'Frank' had been out all night and had gone to bed and that I
       had better not disturb him as he was
       pretty ugly.
       I did not see him, but at the regular time, came to New York. He
       left me shortly after without any notice.
       One of my maidservants named 'Mary', went up to the barn to
       clean up the room that said 'Frank' had occupied and found a
       key: I think in the table draw.
       She also found a shirt with many blood stains on it: one of the
       shirt sleeves especially had large blood stains. She made the
       remark that the tag of the key had
       the same number as the one of the room occupied by 'Shakespeare'
       the night of the murder as mentioned in the papers.
       When I returned home that night, they called my attention to it.
       I put the key in my pocket and brought it to New York with me.
       It was an ordinary brass key of the cheap kind and had a tag on
       it numbered No. 31.  I am positive that it was the same number
       that the papers reported at the
       time to be the number of the room that this woman occupied.  The
       next day I told to Charles Brennan, one of my employees, and
       asked him to walk down to the
       hotel where the murder had been committed, as I did not care to
       go in that locality alone.  We went into a saloon on Catherine
       Street, in the same hotel where the
       murder had been committed, and asked for a cigar. We sat down at
       a table and compared the key that I had and the tag, with the
       keys on the board. It was exactly
       the same style of key and same style of tag: it was a small
       brass tag with the corners clipped.
       While sitting there a party came down and laid a key on the bar
       and went out. We got up and called for a glass of beer and laid
       the key which I had beside the
       other key and they were exactly alike; the figures were the same
       size and shape and the shape of the tag and key were the same.
       From being a practical printer
       and being familiar with the figures, I am positive that the
       stamped figures on the key and those on the key board were made
       from the same dies. I then went out
       and went up to my store.
       The man who I referred to in the beginning of my statement,
       known to me as "Frank', was, I think, a Swede. I know that he
       was a sailor because he had done some
       splicing of ropes for me. He was a man about five feet ten
       inches, rather strong but not fleshy, about thirty-five years
       old. He had a very sullen disposition.
       He was a foreigner, speaking a broken language, and in my
       opinion a Swede.
       He left me in the night, and I have never seen him since. When
       this man came to work for me he only had a bundle of clothes and
       left nothing but the shirt and
       key in his room.
       It would be impossible for me to locate the manservant named
       'Henry' or the maidservant.
       My reason for not coming forward and making this statement
       before was from what I had read in the papers. I made up my mind
       that this 'Frenchy' was quite well
       off where he is and the world without him., and I did not care
       to have my name brought in connection with it, and moreover I
       thought that 'Frenchy' would be
       acquitted, as I did not believe they could make a case against
       him. Had I been instrumental in having 'Frank' arrested, I felt
       convinced, knowing the man, that my
       life or the life of some of my family would have been
       endangered, but I feel now that it is my duty to make this
       affidavit. What I know of this man, I am convinced
       that this man 'Frank' I had in my employ was the murderer of
       that woman.
       The key number 31 which I refer to above is now in my possession
       and has been ever since the day it was found. ]]
       ************************************************************************
       The July 2nd affidavit would turn out to be the statement that
       completely turned case history upside down. I'll add that on
       after this post.
       
       One newspaper contained this report almost two weeks after the
       first affidavit was submitted stating Damon
       claimed the key had been left in his wife's jewel box. (10)
       That article, based on an interview Damon gave after already
       having submitted his May 20 affidavit, also contained the
       following:
       "After making his affidavit, Mr. Damon went home and asked his
       wife  if she could swear to the number which the key her maid
       had found had borne and she replied that she could and that the
       key was up in her jewel box where it had been ever since it had
       been found." (11)
       Yet, at the end of the first affidavit weeks earlier, Damon
       said, ""The key number 31 which I refer to above is now in my
       possession and has been ever since the day it was found."
       This was not just an issue of a newspaper mixing up names;
       confusing one arrested person for another; omitting or adding a
       detail to someone's statement; or misrepresenting what people
       said ranging from defense counselors, the police, to jurors.
       In simpler terms, Damon filed an affidavit on May 20th, swearing
       to the key's existence, and then had to go home to make sure his
       wife remembered where it was.
       Damon had gone to a notary to file an important affidavit
       professing a ten-year ownership of the key, yet is unsure
       whether the key is even in his house or not, thirteen days after
       originally stating that it was in his possession.
       Although you will be hard-pressed to find a more vocal critic of
       Manhattan newspaper reportage than
       me, this report is from the New York Sun, a newspaper that would
       be supportive of Damon or anyone
       who could help secure a release for Ali. 4 reporters from the
       New York Sun filed affidavits in support of Ali in 1901.
       It does not appear in any way to be some sort of invented
       dialogue between Damon and a reporter.
       It's difficult to believe that one of the news reporters would
       fabricate such a statement out of thin air.
       10- DA Philbin's letter to Governor Odell on June 21, 1901,
       states Damon told him that the key was in a safe
       in his home, not his wife's jewel box.
       11- New York Sun June 2nd, 1901
       #Post#: 2295--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 6:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Third Affidavit
       July 2, 1901
       Affidavit Number 3  July 2, 1901
       In the matter of the application for pardon of Frenchy, "Amer
       Ben Ali"
       City and County of New York
       George Damon being duly sworn deposes and says :
       [[That the man ' Frank' referred to in my previous affidavit*
       did not leave my employment in Cranford, New Jersey, for at
       least two days after the murder of
       "Shakespeare" was discovered.
       That this man 'Frank'  was about five feet ten inches in height,
       had brown hair, clean shaving, wearing no wiskers or mustache.
       That when not shaven for a few days would show a very light
       growth and very light color;
       He was a man of about 175 to 180 pounds, with square broad
       shoulders.
       He had a large flat nose, and large eyes, ( I do not remember
       the color ); he had a low forehead.
       Either on his right or left wrist, near the hand, there was a
       wide tattooed bracelet, extending completely around his wrist.
       The figures on the wrist were quite fancy.
       This man 'Frank' spoke fairly good English, with a foreign
       accent; I think that he was either a 'Dane' or a 'Swede', and I
       know that he talked German because I heard him talk German with
       German people; I understood enough of the language to know he
       was speaking German.
       He had a little hitch in walking, apparently stepping shorter
       with one foot than the other. He was a man about 35 years of
       age. My belief is that he spoke only German and English
       He was a man who would seldom speak unless spoken to; he had
       done some splicing of ropes for me while in my employ and from
       this factand the tattooing, I inferred he had been a sailor.
       On the first day of July 1901, I visited the police headquarters
       on Mulberry Street, New York City, for the purpose of examining
       the photographs in the Rogues Gallery.
       I was accompanied by Mr. Robert Butler, one of the editors of
       the 'Sun' and Mr. Ovide Robillard, attorney for 'Frenchy'.
       Upon inquiring of the officers in charge, we were informed that
       no picture of 'Frenchy' had been taken at that time or placed in
       the 'Rogues Gallery'.
       That one of the officers in charge whose name I do not know,
       stated that he well remembered 'Frenchy', as he was one of the
       detectives working on the case, at that time; he described
       'Frenchy' as a man about five feet eleven inches, with sharp
       features, with a long and thin nose, dark complexion with quite
       a heavy mustache, and about 45 or 46 years old in appearance;
       that Frenchy had been arrested about nine o'clock in the morning
       on April 24, 1891, in the 4th precinct, and that at that time he
       had dark wiskers of about two weeks of growth.
       From the fact that this man 'Frank' had no mustache or wiskers
       while working for me, and comparing the pictures of 'Frenchy' in
       the papers, at that time, describing him with a black mustache,
       I am satisfied that the man 'Frank' is not the man 'Frenchy'
       heretofore mentioned.]]
       #Post#: 2296--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 6:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Obviously, two physical features this farmhand possessed were
       not mentioned by Miniter or Kelly and they most certainly would
       have been.  Several items mentioned, such as the type of coat,
       hat, hair, height, age, presumed ethnicity....were noted and all
       matched to a tee...... but two more prominent features weren't.
       That's because they're two different people.
       Pete or Mike...
       I don't necessarily 'want' anyone to agree with my conclusion
       on the farmhand story. Differences in opinion on the site have
       led to some solid information which has advanced the study,
       overall.
       What I would like to know is whether you understand where I'm
       coming from.  I'm not inflexible when it comes to the outside
       chance that Damon didn't fabricate a key or that Jennings might
       have been wrong.  But if the farmhand's features do not
       match...and they don't....then the entire story is on thin ice.
       #Post#: 2297--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: Kattrup
       Date: October 23, 2023, 8:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
       >
       > Obviously, two physical features this farmhand possessed were
       not mentioned by Miniter or Kelly and they most certainly would
       have been.  Several items mentioned, such as the type of coat,
       hat, hair, height, age, presumed ethnicity....were noted and all
       matched to a tee...... but two more prominent features weren't.
       That's because they're two different people.
       >
       > Pete or Mike...
       >
       > I don't necessarily 'want' anyone to agree with my conclusion
       on the farmhand story. Differences in opinion on the site have
       led to some solid information which has advanced the study,
       overall.
       >
       > What I would like to know is whether you understand where I'm
       coming from.  I'm not inflexible when it comes to the outside
       chance that Damon didn't fabricate a key or that Jennings might
       have been wrong.  But if the farmhand's features do not
       match...and they don't....then the entire story is on thin ice.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I certainly do understand your position and the arguments you
       put forward to support it.
       I don’t agree with some of the issues you have with minor
       discrepancies between affidavits.
       And generally I need an empirical basis in order to accept a
       theory- you’re asking to accept that Damon lied and convinced
       his friends to lie as well, for no apparent reason or motive,
       with very little evidence or sources, besides perhaps Jennings’
       statement that the key was not the right one,
       And I think it best to keep separate the origin of the key and
       the identity of C. Kniclo/Glenmore Man and the farmhand.
       As you say, it seems the description of the farmhand does not
       match that of C Kniclo. That does not mean the key was faked. I
       don’t understand why you think this discrepancy invalidates
       Damon’s story, as he (as far as I can recall) has not claimed
       that C Kniclo was the farmhand.
       Isn’t that just an assumption on your part, that if Ali wasn’t
       the murderer, it must have been C Kniclo, therefore if he looks
       dissimilar to the farmhand, the farmhand cannot have been the
       murderer, therefore Damon lies?
       I have a few other comments about some of the issues you have
       but I’m on my phone, so it’s a bother to write up.
       One thing though is the idea that Damon swore an affidavit on
       May 20th that the key was in his possession and only afterwards
       checked with his wife.
       Well, as I’m on my phone I cannot check through all the
       documents but it seems to me that, as there are textual
       differences between the affidavit quoted in the papers May 23rd
       and the affidavit sent to the governor, and as the affidavit
       sent was signed May 29th, that Damon may have amended his
       original affidavit before it was sent?
       The Sun article about him asking his wife if she would swear on
       it is dated 2nd June and states the affidavits were sent
       “yesterday”.
       Note that in the original newspaper articles about the
       affidavit, he does not state that he still has the key.
       So I think he swore the affidavit about his story, went home and
       asked his wife, and found she still had the key. During the week
       his original affidavit was the revised, tidied up a bit, and
       signed on the 29th.
       As said, can’t really check all the details on my phone but I
       think it tallies with the accounts like that. What do you think?
       #Post#: 2298--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 10:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I certainly do understand your position and the arguments you
       put forward to support it.
       ***** Thanks, Pete. It's important that what I'm driving at is
       understood just as it is with what you're saying.
       I don’t agree with some of the issues you have with minor
       discrepancies between affidavits.
       And generally, I need an empirical basis in order to accept a
       theory- you’re asking to accept that Damon lied and convinced
       his friends to lie as well, for no apparent reason or motive,
       with very little evidence or sources, besides perhaps Jennings’
       statement that the key was not the right one.
       ***** My position is that since the description does not tally,
       then anything else in the affidavits ( 2 major ones from Damon,
       1 from Jennings, and 1 from Brennan) is in need of a
       re-evaluation. While the authorities DID correctly look into
       whether the key was authentic and DID make Damon either confirm
       or reject the suggestion that the prisoner in Dannemora claimed
       was incorrect, they did not take the time to compare how Miniter
       and Kelly ( if one is inclined to include him for his Glenmore
       Man description) described him. Surely, the authorities would
       have had to re-assess all of what Damon had brought up in May of
       1901 if they put the two descriptions side by side.
       And I think it best to keep separate the origin of the key and
       the identity of C. Kniclo/Glenmore Man and the farmhand.
       As you say, it seems the description of the farmhand does not
       match that of C Kniclo. That does not mean the key was faked. I
       don’t understand why you think this discrepancy invalidates
       Damon’s story, as he (as far as I can recall) has not claimed
       that C Kniclo was the farmhand.
       He said in the first affidavit and I quote, "What I know of this
       case ( the farmhand), I am convinced that this man 'Frank ' I
       had in my employ was the murderer of that woman."
       Since 'C.Kniclo' was a permutation of the Danish Farmhand, Damon
       IS saying that C. Kniclo-Danish Farmhand were one and the same
       and the killer.
       Isn’t that just an assumption on your part, that if Ali wasn’t
       the murderer, it must have been C Kniclo.
       I'm not committing to either Ali ( whose suspect-worthiness has
       increased in my opinion but NOT because of Damon, in the last
       six months) or C. Kniclo as the killer. I'm fairly certain it
       was one of the two, but without something irrefutable, it's a
       toss-up right now.
       Of course, since the farm hand does not resemble C. Kniclo, he
       couldn't have been the killer. That is what I'm saying.
       There was only one man who went to room 31 with Carrie Brown: C.
       Kniclo. The hotel employees would have mentioned if someone
       besides Ali and C. Kniclo entered the hotel after midnight, the
       time when Ali went in.
       How else could the farmhand enter the hotel without being
       noticed?
       How else could he get his hands on the key that, since the
       farmhand and C. Kniclo were different men, allegedly winds up in
       Cranford?
       Therefore if he looks dissimilar to the farmhand, the farmhand
       cannot have been the murderer, therefore Damon lies?
       Yes, indeed, and because the farmhand was not the man who
       entered the hotel with Carrie Brown. Other folks have to
       question why Damon's description varies to the extent that it
       did with that of C. Kniclo. Two answers come to my mind.
       One, is that it was made up.
       Two, he described someone who did work in Cranford but had
       absolutely no connection to the crime.
       This does not mean C. Kniclo was the murderer without a doubt.
       
       I have a few other comments about some of the issues you have
       but I’m on my phone, so it’s a bother to write up.
       One thing though is the idea that Damon swore an affidavit on
       May 20th that the key was in his possession and only afterwards
       checked with his wife.
       Well, as I’m on my phone I cannot check through all the
       documents but it seems to me that, as there are textual
       differences between the affidavit quoted in the papers May 23rd
       and the affidavit sent to the governor, and as the affidavit
       sent was signed May 29th, that Damon may have amended his
       original affidavit before it was sent?
       The affidavit was originally sworn to on the 20th. Two
       newspaper articles appeared right after the signing on May 23rd
       and May 24th. His next affidavits were on June 12, July 2, and
       July 13. It may have been amended, as you suggest.
       Affidavit two is a rehashing of the first affidavit; the third,
       a stand-alone, and the fourth in regard to Governor Odell
       sending DA Philbin a photo of Ali and having Damon look at it.
       The newspaper article in the Washington Times is typical of
       creative journalists at work. Damon only refers to a Dane for
       the first time 40 days after Robillard mentioned the farmhand's
       ethnic background, in his third affidavit on July 2nd.
       The Sun article about him asking his wife if she would swear on
       it is dated 2nd June and states the affidavits were sent
       “yesterday”.
       Note that in the original newspaper articles about the
       affidavit, he does not state that he still has the key.
       So I think he swore the affidavit about his story, went home and
       asked his wife, and found she still had the key. During the week
       his original affidavit was the revised, tidied up a bit, and
       signed on the 29th.
       As said, can’t really check all the details on my phone but I
       think it tallies with accounts like that. What do you think?
       I originally thought that the first affidavit was signed on the
       29th. But since newspaper articles had begun to appear BEFORE
       May 29th, I opted for the answer being he had signed and
       finalized the first one on the 20th, which looks a little like
       the 29 on the signature line.
       In any event, to me, it makes no sense that he goes to sign an
       affidavit swearing he is in possession of the key to room 31 but
       displays some indecision in the key's location.
       Another question....why didn't he bring the key along at the
       time of the signing of the first affidavit? Wasn't it integral
       to the entire story he was presenting? His story arrives in
       piecemeal, something that could have been accomplished on one
       afternoon takes this man 4 trips to complete.
       #Post#: 2299--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 11:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       D.A. PHILBIN'S
       REPORTS
       
       FIRST REPORT TO
       GOVERNOR ODELL
       JUNE 21ST,
       1901
       The following report was written by New York City DA Eugene
       Philbin on June 21, 1901, after
       being contacted by Governor Odell on June 3rd. The first of
       three reports Philbin sent to Odell.
       District Attorney's Office
       City and County of New York
       June 21st, 1901
       To his Excellency
       The Governor of The State of New York
       Albany, N.Y.
       Sir:- I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of an
       Executive communication under date of June 3rd, 1901, informing
       me that application for clemency has been made on behalf of
       George Frank, alias Amer Ben Ali who was convicted in the Court
       of General Sessions of this county, of the crime of Murder in
       the Second Degree. The prisoner was sentenced on July 10th,
       1891, by the late Justice Frederick Smyth-at that time Recorder
       in our Court of General Sessions- to imprisonment in State
       Prison for the term of his natural life.
       In 1894, an application was made for the pardon of this prisoner
       on the grounds of innocence. The late Col. John R. Fellows, at
       that time District Attorney of this county made a report of the
       case reviewing the testimony adduced on the trial and giving his
       opinion as to the merits of the application. A copy of said
       report is herewith enclosed.
       "Your communication informs me that:
       "A renewal of the application is now made on the same ground
       as before, and some further evidence consisting of affidavits
       and of a certain key therein referred to has been submitted.
       These affidavits and key are enclosed herewith for your (my)
       inspection and with the request that you return them, when
       through with them, to the Executive Chamber.
       Governor Odell directs me respectfully to request that you
       examine these documents and make such investigation concerning
       the matters alleged as you may be able and report thereon to
       him."
       In conformity with this request, I have the honor to submit the
       following:
       It is now claimed that the key in question furnishes newly
       discovered evidence of the innocence of the prisoner. The door
       of the room in which the body of the murdered woman was found
       was locked and the key thereof could not be found, nor was any
       key found in possession of 'Frenchy' when he was arrested.
       The key submitted for my inspection and examination was
       discovered some four days after the murder in a room at
       Cranford, N.J., occupied by a man employed by Mr. George Damon.
       On the night the murder occurred this man had not been home all
       night, and three or four days
       after the the murder, while the newspapers were filled with
       accounts of the tragedy, this man left his employer's service
       and was never heard from afterward. (1)
       When he went away he left behind him the brass key in question
       and a shirt stained with blood. The shirt was thrown away but
       the key was placed in a safe (2), whence it was brought when
       recent publications in the newspapers again directed public
       attention to the murder. (3)
       The details of the finding of the key, together with such
       proofs as bear upon its alleged genuineness, will be found fully
       set forth in the additional statements and affidavits herewith
       submitted.
       In order to trace and verify, if possible, the genuineness of
       said key, I cause an investigation to be made of the premises,
       formerly known as the East River Hotel, the house in which the
       old woman known as 'Shakespeare' was found murdered on April 24,
       1891. This investigation was conducted by Detective Sergeant
       McNaught, of the Central Office, at present on special duty in
       the District Attorney's office, and he reports in substance as
       follows: (4)
       That he diligently followed my instructions and ascertained
       that not a vestige of the old house as it existed at the time of
       the murder--save the walls--in now left. That some few months
       after the tragedy occurred the then proprietor--Mr. James
       Jennings-- retired from the hotel business and moved away; that
       the place was then closed and remained closed for about three
       years; that while it was thus closed, a fire occurred in the
       place which did considerable damage interiorly; that the inside
       of the house was afterward changed and altered into a tenement
       house; that it is occupied as such at the present time, with a
       bar-room on the ground floor and several rooms "for gentlemen
       only", evidently reserved to meet the requirements of Raines
       Law.
       In the renovation of the place about five years ago, the rooms
       that existed when the place was run as a hotel were ripped out
       (Note: that would be during 1896), the locks and keys being
       disposed of at the time with the other debris of the place and
       carried away, nobody knowing what became of them.
       I have examined Mr. George Damon in relation to the finding of
       the key and reiterated all the statements contained in his
       affidavit (5).
       He further informed me that the man "Frank" mentioned in his
       affidavit, had worked for him for about four weeks; that about
       three days after the murder "Frank left him (Mr. Damon's) employ
       without any notice; that no money was due him at the time, and
       that he had not seen or heard of him since.  Concerning the
       servant-maid Mary-- also mentioned in his affidavit--Mr. Damon
       informed me that she had left his employ some nine years ago and
       that he did not know her present whereabouts.
       Mr. Damon further stated that his wife, shortly after the key
       was found by the maid Mary, had put it away in the safe at their
       house in Cranford, N.J. where it remained and---
       At this point, the letter ends abruptly.
       ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Today, it's clear that there had been no fire at the hotel while
       Jennings was in charge, and neither were there any renovations
       while he was hotel proprietor. Jennings wasn't the least bit
       unsure of the authenticity of the key.
       James Jennings' affidavit was submitted eleven days before DA
       Philbin wrote this report and Philbin was obviously aware of
       Jennings' rejection of the key.  No further investigation was
       undertaken by the D.A.'s Office and for a very good reason.
       That was because Philbin had no other way of ascertaining the
       authenticity of the key. The hotel's new doors and its new locks
       were not like those from when Jennings was in charge. There was
       no way to refute Damon's claim conclusively or affirm that of
       Jennings's, despite Jennings obviously being more well-versed on
       which keys were in use on the fifth floor and throughout the
       hotel.  It was a matter of Philbin dealing with, on the one
       hand, Damon's story, the key, the affidavits, letters, and this
       latest pardon campaign, while on the other, only James
       Jennings's dismissal of the key as being the type used in 1891.
       Faced with this decision of what to do, he did what many others
       in his situation would have done in the same position.
       
       This is the sequence of events which led to D.A.
       Philbin's second report to Governor Odell:
       1. A convict in Dannemora, James M. Dougherty, writes Governor
       Odell a letter dated June 22nd.
       In the letter, the convict states he believes Ali and Frank
       the farmhand are one and the same.
       2. D.A. Philbin receives a second letter from Governor Odell
       dated June 27th with a request to look into the
       claims made by the convict which should have been obvious at
       the time to the Governor that it
       was only a ploy on the convict's part to curry favors.
       3. Philbin gets in contact with George Damon.
       4. Damon goes to Mulberry Street on July 1st and while there he
       learns that his farmhand does not resemble  Ali based on what an
       officer who knew Ali tells him and in the process gives a
       description of the farmhand.
       Damon had gone to police headquarters with Ovide Robillard and
       Robert Gordon Butler. Damon's affidavit
       5. On July 10th, Philbin sends in his second official report to
       the Governor with information obtained from
       George Damon as well as the latest( 3rd) affidavit that had
       been filed eight days earlier on July 2nd, 1901.
       Philbin's report was accompanied by Damon's third affidavit.
       
       -----------------------------------------------------------
       The letter from James M. Dougherty to Governor Odell.
       Dougherty, born in 1856, was 44 or 45 at the time of this
       missive to the Governor. Dougherty would still be in
       Dannemora in 1910.
       Dougherty 'Ripper series No.3'
       Robert B. Lamb, M.D.
       Sup't. Dannemora State Hospital
       Dannemora, N.Y
       --------------
       His Excellency
       Benjamin B. Odell
       Executive Mansion
       Albany, New York
       Dannemora, N.Y. June 22nd, 1901
       Your Excellency:
       Herein, you will please find certain valuable information about
       him ( Jack The Ripper ). I have long and seriously thought over
       the pros and the cons of this remarkable man's case, and having
       been a decade in close intimacy with him, have learned more
       about him than you and all the advisers of his
       various petitions put together and what's more, I want you to
       understand that him and myself are and always have been in the
       best of terms. In sending this communication, I do so only for
       his own and the commonweal-Remember this, and then give me due
       consideration- That man Damon's hired man's name was Frank. He
       was 5 ft. 10 in. or so in height, 35 years of age, wiry, thin
       face, foreigner, speaking broken English, the foreigner's ( ?
       )description tallies exactly with this man here ten years ago.
       Now this man Damon is the kind of man who would not acknowledge
       that this man here is the one that worked for him if he was
       asked about it fair and square, but I think he could be made to
       positively identify him if he was shown a picture of Jack as he
       was when he first came to prison and told that it was the
       picture of the man who committed the recent 'Ripping' on Sunday,
       who by the way I'm satisfied was Mrs.___No. 2 working to help
       him out- or better yet present it as of the man who died in
       prison supposed to have been the genuine Ripper- It could be
       told  to Damon that he had been arrested as the guilty (?) and
       was being held for identification so that you would then be able
       to conscientiously pardon the fellow out- Inspector Byrnes
       instead of censure deserved great credit for lodging this fellow
       on the __ evidence that he then had. His sleuth instinct told
       him no doubt that this fellow was the guilty one and that Damon,
       if were possible should be severely dealt with for suppressing
       this evidence which would have made plain sailing for Byrnes as
       he himself says he withheld it while he supposed that an
       innocent man was being sent to prison for want of it.- This
       fellow here has told me all about how he worked all the insane
       doctors to get here, and all to that and has proved to me in
       innumerable ways that he has all the qualities necessary for
       'Ripper' work, wonderful, cunning and terrible achievements,
       deep instinct and a large power of dissembling.
       That he was ever in the French army -Franco-Prussian war I
       doubt. He is only 45 now, which would only leave him 15 years of
       age in '71. Of course, it's an easy matter for him, or anybody,
       to cut the picture of a soldier out of a newspaper and say this
       is like I used to be. That's no evidence, even if a sensational
       yellow journal displays it as a picture of himself. That doesn't
       make it so.
       In conclusion, I very much wish you would send me that order
       enabling me to employ an attorney which I am patiently waiting
       for in all sincerity
       James M. Dougherty
       -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       SECOND REPORT TO
       GOVERNOR ODELL
       JULY
       10th,1901
       District Attorney's Office
       City and County of New York
       July 10, 1901
       To His Excellency
       The Governor of The State of New York
       Albany, N.Y.
       Sir:-
       I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of an Executive
       communication under date of June 27, 1901, asking for additional
       particulars, or rather for a supplemental investigation,
       concerning certain allegations connected with the case of:
       George Frank
       alias
       Amer Ben Ali
       alias Frenchy,
       at present confined in the Dannemora State Hospital, and
       whose case was fully reported by me
       to your Excellency, under date of June 21st, 1901.
       Your communication states:-
       "A letter has been received this morning ( June 27th, 1901)
       from a convict now imprisoned in the Dannemora State
       Hospital in which it is suggested that Mr. Damon's hired man,
       Frank, who disappeared from his employer's
       premises on the morning after the murder, and Frenchy, are
       one and the same person."
       I have carefully and fully investigated this intimation
       suggested by the convict, James M. Dougherty,
       and in connection therewith beg respectfully to submit
       herewith the following papers and report:-
       The murder of the old woman Carrie Brown, otherwise known as
       Shakespeare, was discovered on the morning of April 24th, 1891.
       George Frank- Frenchy- was arrested at about nine o'clock that
       night -April 24th, 1891- and remained in custody from that date.
       The time and date of Frenchy's arrest as officially entered on
       the 'Blotter' at the 5th Precinct ( Oak Street Police Station )
       is as follows:-
       "9 p.m. Friday, April 24th, 1891.
       9 p.m.--George Frank, 30 years old, white, Algiers, Africa.
       Sailor, single, no home.
       Complaint- suspicious person. Officers Lang and Griffin.
       Disposition- remanded by Coroner Schultz
       Prisoner arrested on suspicion of being interested in the
       homicide of 10:30 this A.M."
       In further corroboration of the date of Frenchy's arrest, I
       enclose herewith a clipping from the N.Y.Sun of May 1st, 1891,
       which states he was arrested on April 24th, 1891.
       Frank, the hired man of Mr. George Damon, was at his employer's
       house, in Cranford New Jersey, on the day the murder was
       discovered. He was absent the night previous but returned home
       early the next morning- April 24th, 1891- and did not leave his
       employer's service until at least two days after the murder had
       become known.
       If Frenchy was arrested on the night of April 24th, 1891- and
       that such is the fact seems pretty conclusive-- and if Frank,
       Mr. Damon's hired man, did not leave his employer's service
       until two or three days after that date--as sworn to by Mr.
       Damon in his previous and present affidavits--it is obvious that
       said Frank and Frenchy cannot possibly be one and the same
       person.
       Concerning the personal appearance of the two men, Mr. Damon
       describes his hired man, Frank, in his affidavit, as about 5 ft.
       10 in. in height, with brown hair, a large flat nose, and a low
       forehead; he further states that he was clean-shaven and when
       not shaven for a few days would show a very light growth and
       light color and that he spoke fairly good English, with a
       foreign accent and could talk German.
       Frenchy according to the joint affidavit of Mr. Charles Salomon
       and Mr. Ovide Robillard, who called on him at the Matteawan
       State Hospital in March 1899, is about 5'11", has a long narrow
       head and long forehead; thin, long nose, regular in shape, sharp
       features and dark complexion, and appears to be of a southern
       European type. They also state that his English is almost
       unintelligible, being mixed with French phrases and what seems
       to be a Spanish dialect.
       There does not appear to me to be anything in the foregoing
       description of the two men that would indicate the said Frank
       and Frenchy to be one and the same person.
       In further corroboration of this report I beg respectfully
       herewith to submit the following papers:-
       An affidavit from Mr. George Damon, in whose employ the man
       known as Frank is said to have remained for at least two days
       after the murders; A joint affidavit by Mr. Charles S. Salomon
       and Mr. Ovide Robillard who visited Frenchy at the Matteawan
       State Hospital in March 1899;
       And a statement of Mr. Robert Gordon Butler, one of the editors
       of the N.Y. Sun, who furnishes the enclosed clipping from said
       newspaper relating to the date of Frenchy's arrest
       I have the honor to be, Sir
       Very respectfully
       Your obedient servant
       Eugene Philbin, District Attorney
       ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Governor Odell sent a photo of Ali taken in
       1896 to Philbin to show Damon to
       be absolutely sure 'Frank' and Ali
       were not the same person.
       A third letter was sent by Governor Odell on July
       11th. DA Philbin responded on July 15th
       THIRD REPORT TO
       GOVERNOR ODELL
       JULY
       15th, 1901
       District Attorney's Office
       City and County of New York
       July 15th, 1901
       To his Excellency
       The Governor of the State of New York
       Albany, N.Y.
       Sir:-
       I have the honor to hereby acknowledge the receipt of an
       Executive communication
       under date of July 11th, 1901, enclosing a photograph of
       George Frank, alias Frenchy,
       which picture- for the purpose of identification- you desire
       should be showed to
       Mr, Damon, in whose service the hired man known as Frank was
       employed prior to and
       some days after the murder of the old woman Carrie Brown,
       otherwise known as Shakespeare.
       Your communication states:
       "As Mr.Damon has never had an opportunity of seeing a picture
       of Frenchy I have
       borrowed from the office of the Superintendent of State Prisons
       a photograph taken
       in October 1896, which it might be well to show Mr. Damon, and
       if he declares
       it is not his man Frank that would probably remove all possible
       doubt."
       In compliance with this request, I have had Mr. Damon examine
       the photograph
       in question, and he declares most emphatically--after carefully
       studying
       the picture--that his man Frank was of an entirely different
       type; that
       said Frank bore no resemblance, whatsoever, to this picture of
       Frenchy- either
       in profile or in full face- and the two men he positively
       declares to be
       dissimilar in appearance from every point of view.
       These declarations, made to me by Mr.Damon, are further
       substantiate
       by the affidavit hereunto annexed.
       The picture in question is herewith returned as per request.
       I have the honor to be, Sir,
       Very respectfully,
       Your obedient servant
       Eugene Philbin
       District Attorney
       
       
       1- Damon claimed the hired hand left two days later in an
       affidavit. Some newspaper reports quote him saying three or four
       days later. One as many as ten days.
       2. The New York Sun edition for June 2, 1901, already discussed
       in the George Damon in 1901 Chapter, finds Damon claiming the
       key had been left in his wife's jewel box, not a safe.
       3- The lone Manhattan-based article I found mentioning '
       Frenchy' that was published before Damon came forward in 1901
       was the March 27, 1901 edition of the New York Sun.  I can't
       find 'recent publications' in the plural tense.
       4- Robert McNaught was one of the two detectives in late April
       1891, along with Officer George Aloncle, who went with Ali to
       Brooklyn on a wild goose chase. Ali lied about being in Brooklyn
       on April 23rd.
       5- DA Philbin says, "...and he reiterated all the statements
       contained in his affidavit."
       Damon had filed two affidavits, the first on May 20th and before
       Philbin wrote his first report.
       6- DA John Fellows 1894-1896
       7- Governor Roswell Flower 1892-1894
       #Post#: 2300--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: Kattrup
       Date: October 23, 2023, 5:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Howard, how do you know the affidavit you have a copy of was
       sworn on May 20th?
       There were two series of articles, about a week apart,
       mentioning affidavits. First series, about May 23-24. never
       mentions the key being in Damon’s possession.
       Affidavits mentioned are Damon’s and Lee’s, with a mention of
       Robillard planning a meeting with governor Odell “next week”.
       Second series, about June 2nd, specifically mentions eight
       affidavits and mentions the key being forwarded as evidence.
       The Washington Evening Times directly quotes, or at least claims
       to directly quote, the full text of Damon’s affidavit. They also
       interviewed him. Again, no mention is made of the key.
       The affidavit you have seems to be clearly signed the 29th, not
       the 20th. It is my assumption that you (and Dekle’s?) read it as
       “20 with a squiggle” because the  affidavit is presumed to
       precede the article of the 23rd, is that perhaps correct?
       Now, since the article ALSO mentions Lee’s affidavit, one must
       consequently assume that it, too, was dated 20th of May.
       However, I think you concur in saying it is dated 31st of May?
       So how can the May 23rd article mention HIS affidavit?
       I think the answer is that the affidavits described by Robillard
       and quoted in the paper on the 23rd were not finalized, or a
       second version was submitted. Note the many textual differences
       between the papers’ version and the version submitted to the
       governor.
       This also explains why, for instance, Robillard could mention
       the farmhand being a Dane - Damon mentions this in the version
       quoted in the May 23rd paper. It also explains how Damon could
       go home and ask his wife if she would swear to the key’s number,
       that is, make out an affidavit like his, after his first
       version, in which no mention of the key’s whereabouts was made.
       So the first articles have no info about the key being in his
       possession.
       After she informs him she still has the key, he is able to amend
       his affidavit to include that information. Obviously, a much
       more persuasive affidavit when he can simultaneously submit the
       actual key. The later articles therefore include that
       information.
       #Post#: 2301--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 7:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Pete:
       This is the signature on the first affidavit.
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/mopmR2i.jpg
       .
       I've attached the four Damon affidavits in the PDF at the
       bottom.
       There had been 8 affidavits before June 2nd, Pete.  These are
       the men who signed them and their dates.
       Riis- March 8, 1901
       Coleman submitted his on April 8th, 1901
       Barber submitted his on May 27th, 1901
       Berbenich submitted his on May 28th, 1901
       Butler submitted his on May 27th, 1901
       Lee submitted his on what looks like May 31, 1901
       Brennan submitted his on May 9th, 1901
       Damon on May 20.
       #Post#: 2302--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Issue Of The Key To Room 31 : 
   DIR By: HowBrown1953
       Date: October 23, 2023, 7:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Howard, how do you know the affidavit you have a copy of was
       sworn on May 20th?
       There were two series of articles, about a week apart,
       mentioning affidavits. First series, about May 23-24. never
       mentions the key being in Damon’s possession.
       No, Pete....[b]they did mention the key. Now I recall why I came
       to the conclusion that he had come forward on the 20th.  I know
       the affidavit seems to read 'May 29', but that's incorrect since
       the Times article had already mentioned the key.[/b]
       First post in this thread:
  HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com/1901-9/adventures-in-affidavits/
       --------------------------------------------------
       The Washington Evening Times directly quotes, or at least claims
       to directly quote, the full text of Damon’s affidavit. They also
       interviewed him. Again, no mention is made of the key.
       Yes, there was Pete. Look at the second post:
  HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com/1901-9/the-'well-known-contractor'-was-a-clerk-in-a-hardware-store-in-cranford-new-disc/msg2040/#msg2040
       In addition, the first affidavit referenced to in the May 23rd
       article  does not contain all of what Damon said.
       The affidavit you have seems to be clearly signed the 29th, not
       the 20th. It is my assumption that you (and Dekle’s?) read it as
       “20 with a squiggle” because the  affidavit is presumed to
       precede the article of the 23rd, is that perhaps correct?
       It did get signed before the article of the 23rd and the
       explanation was provided earlier.
       Now, since the article ALSO mentions Lee’s affidavit, one must
       consequently assume that it, too, was dated 20th of May.
       However, I think you concur in saying it is dated 31st of May?
       So how can the May 23rd article mention HIS affidavit?
       Lee came forward and filed his affidavit on that date, [b]May
       31. He may have said that he planned on filing an affidavit in
       the near future and it was incorrectly assumed that he already
       had and thus reported  as if he already had  in the Times
       article of the 23rd.[/b]
       Its the press, Pete. What do you expect?  ;D
       
       *****************************************************
       Page 2 of 3
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page