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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 1941--------------------------------------------------
Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 29, 2023, 9:26 am
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Comparison between the two people who described C. Kniclo and
the Danish Farmhand.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/KX7Ufm4.jpg
There was a C. Kniclo, no doubt.
But George Damon's sworn testimony intended to support the
position that his farmhand was C. Kniclo, in reality, does just
the opposite.
C.Kniclo, the man who was seen by Miniter......had a mustache.
Damon's Danish Farmhand did not. They were not one and the
same.
Why he would fabricate this story will be discussed in the near
future.
***************************************************************************************************************
In addition, one of the two men who were present when Damon made
this statement was Ovide Robillard, the driving force behind the
pardon campaigns from the very beginning.
He was also the person who handed James Jennings the alleged key
to Room 31 and was told by Jennings that it was not the key to
Room 31 ( James Jennings' June 10th, 1891 sworn affidavit).
I'm hoping Pete and Mike will pitch in and we can discuss this
latter situation if not necessarily the first part of the post.
#Post#: 1942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 29, 2023, 4:16 pm
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I ought to have stated that when I brought up the 8 weeks
Miniter spent in The Tombs, it was not for any crime. It was
the legal procedure by which a State or municipality can detain
material witnesses either involved with or having information
related to a crime.
This practice continues today.
Mary Miniter, of course, did not witness any crime. Her two
months in jail were for being in the wrong place at the wrong
time.
It is unknown whether she returned to the East River Hotel after
the conclusion of the Ali trial.
#Post#: 1944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: Michael Banks
Date: July 30, 2023, 3:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The suggestion has been made that Ali was only convicted because
of police corruption and the planting of blood evidence.
Talk about irony How. It now appears that Ali was only released
on appeal due to corruption! Or at least dishonesty.
Who would know better what the EHR keys looked like than
Jennings…..ignored.
Then the guy who had the key and who must have been Kniclo (seen
and described by Miniter [and Kelly]) turns out not to match the
description…..also ignored.
There couldn’t have been many people who were so outraged by
Ali’s continued confinement that they were compelled to do
something about it surely How? So I’d say that we have to ask
what made the ‘leading light(s) of the campaign so committed to
getting a man released who they normally wouldn’t have given the
price of a cup of coffee? Who were the ‘leaders’ of the
campaign?
#Post#: 1945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The suggestion has been made that Ali was only convicted because
of police corruption and the planting of blood evidence.
Talk about irony How. It now appears that Ali was only released
on appeal due to corruption! Or at least dishonesty.
That's precisely how I see it, Mike. Robillard overlooking one
gaffe ( either the absence of a mustache or the build or even
the flat nose) might conceivably have been an oversight, but the
fact that Jennings was handed the key by Robillard and then
after Jennings tells Robillard that it wasn't the key cannot be
overlooked. The farmhand's features might be considered the
less important oversight here but the key, the finding of which
was the primary focus of the pro-Ali camp going back to May of
1891, simply can't. It is a case of the pardon campaigner's
number one boy Robillard playing the old game, "What's good for
the goose is good for the gander..."
Who would know better what the EHR keys looked like than
Jennings…..ignored.
Then the guy who had the key and who must have been Kniclo (seen
and described by Miniter [and Kelly]) turns out not to match the
description…..also ignored.
There couldn’t have been many people who were so outraged by
Ali’s continued confinement that they were compelled to do
something about it surely How? So I’d say that we have to ask
what made the ‘leading light(s) of the campaign so committed to
getting a man released who they normally wouldn’t have given the
price of a cup of coffee? Who were the ‘leaders’ of the
campaign?
Early on, Robillard, being a representative of French-based
concerns in America and would be for years, decided to confer
with members of the French diplomatic team in New York to see
whether they would join hands and try to get a former soldier
and citizen of a French ( Algeria) colony out of jail and out of
the country. It was more a political maneuver and had less to do
with Ali being a worthwhile individual worth getting out of jail
and more with flexing French muscles in the States. The French
appealed to the U.S. Secretary of State, for Chrissakes, to see
if he could help expedite the release of this guy. There were
New York reporters who aligned with Robillard from the sidelines
as press references to pardon campaigns always referred to
Robillard and/or the French Consulate or Govt first and
foremost. Needless to say, the opinions of those reporters who
didn't claim to see blood would be used by the French.
I think it's important to know that not all of the reporters
present on the fifth floor claimed to have not seen blood and
equally important to know that those reporters who did were men
with long-entrenched leanings towards social reform like
Russell, Riis, and Butler.
I'll post a list of the names of the higher-ups in the French
campaign, Mike. Give me a couple of minutes.
#Post#: 1946--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 30, 2023, 5:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Mike:
Here are very three prominent French diplomats or wheels on the
support wagon.
Jules Gambon : French Ambassador to the United States
Coudert Brothers Law Firm in New York
Edmon Bruwaert : Consulate General de France, Washington
Gambon was in contact with both Secretary of State John Hay,
shown here in 1897...and David Hill, Assistant Secretary of
State ,shown below the photo of Hay
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Gk1XBr0.jpg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/I4s8SrP.jpg
The petition list is comprised of 2,000 or so names and, in my
estimation, at least 75 percent of them are French surnames.
This is the outfit that pledged to ship Ali out of the country,
the French Benevolent Society
HTML https://i.imgur.com/P1AzGsv.jpg
#Post#: 1947--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 30, 2023, 6:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Letter of support from the ( French) owner of a riding academy
no longer in existence which was situated in the Financial
District, not the 4th Ward.
This one raises an eyebrow. One of those claims that you don't
buy but can't disprove.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/GzPNljM.jpg
Location of the riding academy in relation to 44 Beekman and 14
Catherine Slip.....the Bowery Triangle ;D
HTML https://i.imgur.com/BMSeq6q.jpg
#Post#: 1948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: Michael Banks
Date: July 31, 2023, 3:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
>
> The suggestion has been made that Ali was only convicted
because of police corruption and the planting of blood evidence.
> Talk about irony How. It now appears that Ali was only
released on appeal due to corruption! Or at least dishonesty.
>
> That's precisely how I see it, Mike. Robillard overlooking
one gaffe ( either the absence of a mustache or the build or
even the flat nose) might conceivably have been an oversight,
but the fact that Jennings was handed the key by Robillard and
then after Jennings tells Robillard that it wasn't the key
cannot be overlooked. The farmhand's features might be
considered the less important oversight here but the key, the
finding of which was the primary focus of the pro-Ali camp going
back to May of 1891, simply can't. It is a case of the pardon
campaigner's number one boy Robillard playing the old game,
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander..."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Who would know better what the EHR keys looked like than
Jennings…..ignored.
> Then the guy who had the key and who must have been Kniclo
(seen and described by Miniter [and Kelly]) turns out not to
match the description…..also ignored.
>
> There couldn’t have been many people who were so outraged by
Ali’s continued confinement that they were compelled to do
something about it surely How? So I’d say that we have to ask
what made the ‘leading light(s) of the campaign so committed to
getting a man released who they normally wouldn’t have given the
price of a cup of coffee? Who were the ‘leaders’ of the
campaign?
>
> Early on, Robillard, being a representative of French-based
concerns in America and would be for years, decided to confer
with members of the French diplomatic team in New York to see
whether they would join hands and try to get a former soldier
and citizen of a French ( Algeria) colony out of jail and out of
the country. It was more a political maneuver and had less to do
with Ali being a worthwhile individual worth getting out of jail
and more with flexing French muscles in the States. The French
appealed to the U.S. Secretary of State, for Chrissakes, to see
if he could help expedite the release of this guy. There were
New York reporters who aligned with Robillard from the sidelines
as press references to pardon campaigns always referred to
Robillard and/or the French Consulate or Govt first and
foremost. Needless to say, the opinions of those reporters who
didn't claim to see blood would be used by the French.
>
> I think it's important to know that not all of the reporters
present on the fifth floor claimed to have not seen blood and
equally important to know that those reporters who did were men
with long-entrenched leanings towards social reform like
Russell, Riis, and Butler.
>
> I'll post a list of the names of the higher-ups in the French
campaign, Mike. Give me a couple of minutes.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ali knew Brown. Ali was know use violence against women. He was
in a room just feet from Brown’s room and he was covered in her
blood. As a person, the phrase ‘lowlife’ fits like a glove. So
we can only assume that when trying for signatures the
suggestion of evidence planting surfaced as no one could have
known enough to question the medical evidence. Poor old Ali vs
corrupt cops. I don’t think that it would have taken any great
efforts of persuasion to get signatures; especially when most of
them were French.
The question for me is ‘were Robillard and his pals so certain
that Ali was innocent? Or was there another motive? As you know,
I’m more than a little suspicious of those reporters who saw no
blood but didn’t you remind me that some had actually mentioned
seeing no blood closer to the time of Ali’s conviction?
Nevertheless, exposing ‘police corruption’ is a powerful motive
and Ali’s was a high profile case - if the police could get an
‘innocent man’ like Ali convicted under those circumstances how
many other lesser cases of corruption could there have been?
To achieve this Robillard suppressed 2 killer pieces of
evidence. And let’s not forget that Ali viciously beat a guy up
whilst in prison which couldn’t have look good on his cv.
Is there any evidence of any beef with the police from Robillard
or any of his more powerful buddies? Anyone running for office
on a ‘clean up the police force’ ticket?
#Post#: 1949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miniter Contra Damon : It's Who You Know
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: July 31, 2023, 6:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ali knew Brown. Ali was known to use violence against women. He
was in a room just feet from Brown’s room and he was covered in
her blood. As a person, the phrase ‘lowlife’ fits like a glove.
So we can only assume that when trying for signatures the
suggestion of evidence planting surfaced as no one could have
known enough to question the medical evidence. Poor old Ali vs
corrupt cops. I don’t think that it would have taken any great
efforts of persuasion to get signatures; especially when most of
them were French.
The vast majority of those French names were a result of
Robillard canvassing rank and file Franco-Americans and
Franco-American organizations asking for their support helping
out a 'countryman'. The same would have occurred had Ali been
from Naples....the petitions would have been predominantly
filled with Italian names. It's not really unusual when you
think about it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question for me is ‘were Robillard and his pals so certain
that Ali was innocent? Or was there another motive? As you know,
I’m more than a little suspicious of those reporters who saw no
blood but didn’t you remind me that some had actually mentioned
seeing no blood closer to the time of Ali’s conviction?
Nevertheless, exposing ‘police corruption’ is a powerful motive
and Ali’s was a high profile case - if the police could get an
‘innocent man’ like Ali convicted under those circumstances how
many other lesser cases of corruption could there have been?
Ali's bullshit story of the two cops grabbing him while in the
Oak Street or Mulberry Street station and jabbing him with a
sharp object drawing blood which he used to explain why blood
was under his inch long nails, mysteriously was never mentioned
to any of the three attorneys all the way until the verdict in
July 1891. Likewise, he was not subjected to any 'third degree'
treatment, which was usually a psychological maneuver and not
physical torture employed by the NYPD. Not a peep about any
extra pressure applied to Ali....that is, until he had someone
in jail or the asylum write a letter to one Governor mentioning
the cops at the station forcibly extricating blood from his
fingers.
You raise a good point here, Mike. I think it is possible...not
definite...that regardless of whether Robillard and the cadre
believed he was completely innocent, the suggestions that the
police set Ali up were 'enough' for Robillard and like-minded
individuals who saw it as an opportunity to engage in a
politically-motivated endeavor to get him sent back to Algeria.
It wasn't like one of the modern 'Innocence Project' movements,
which are to be applauded, but an attempt to get Ali out of
everyone's hair, once and for all. Which is what they did.
I mentioned before that not all those reporters there on the
fifth floor were in lockstep over the absence of blood. Not all
of those, and there had been a dozen present on the morning of
the 24th, signed affidavits. One article, that extensive 1906
piece in the Evansville Courier ( written by a New York reporter
whose name I can't determine) pointed out that it was dark and
dingy in that hallway and it wouldn't be difficult for someone
to overlook what the police stated they found.
When it comes to police corruption, I think this needs to be
considered:
One of the major police figures from the Gilded Age, Clubber
Williams, who sent Governor Odell two letters offering to assist
the pardon effort and put his signature on one of the petitions
we now have in our possession if you read that extensive list,
freely admitted to lining his pockets with cash. It's from
Williams, a Canadian immigrant, that we get the term the
'Tenderloin'. There's no doubt that police engaged in taking
money and turning a blind eye to brothels and turning up the
heat on saloons who violated the Excise Laws at their
discretion, but financial crimes just can't be equated with
procedural crimes, such as crime investigation, unless there is
evidence. Anyone, unless that person has an agenda, who looks
at Byrnes' career, remarkable successes, praise from foreign
dignitaries, and respect from people like Jacob Riis when it
came to crime detection, cannot come away believing that
equating cops skimming the cream necessarily means that the
police did the same when it came to solving crime. Byrnes,
according to author Richard Zacks, who specializes in Gilded Age
New York History, was the link between the original police
forces and the F.B.I. for his innovative techniques. His system
was the model for police departments, particularly the detective
bureaus, all across America. One of the numerous changes I have
undergone in the last 7 years regarding this case is that I
definitely don't believe an attempt to tarnish the reputation of
the NYPD/Byrnes would have been considered by planting blood.
Too many pitfalls and potentially career-ending results. There
is zero doubt that Byrnes placed his career achievements over
all other concerns except his family.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To achieve this Robillard suppressed 2 killer pieces of
evidence. And let’s not forget that Ali viciously beat a guy up
whilst in prison which couldn’t have look good on his cv.
Is there any evidence of any beef with the police from Robillard
or any of his more powerful buddies? Anyone running for office
on a ‘clean up the police force’ ticket?
The 'rules' of prison or asylum life are both different than the
rules you and I play by. I think, in fairness, since we don't
know what went down that day with Greef to incite the violence
Ali enacted on him, Greef might have provoked him
somehow....homosexual advance...called him a nigger....some
insult and Greef being the one who started the fight and wound
up with his ass being kicked.
However bad this event was, it didn't change the pardon campaign
movement that much, so much so they shut the effort down
completely.
They bided their time and waited until the smoke cleared...and
then got right back to work on his behalf.
This is why I firmly believe that the pardon campaigns were more
about political saber-rattling and less about Ali. I think he
became a bizarre poster-child for the French concerns, a tool of
sorts.
I would also go so far as to suggest that Robillard was the
reason why Ali sent as many letters as he did to the Governors.
We both know what the French and supporters from within the
press ranks really felt about him. One look at the letters he
wrote to two different Governors with references to the victim
insulting the woman says it all, boss.
There's no evidence that I've seen which suggests that the
French cadre and the NYPD were at odds, period.
None of the reporters were running for office. Riis was already
famous for his book, How The Other Half Lives, Butler was a
reporter at the time for the Sun ( as was Riis), and Charles
Russell was a Herald reporter who would win the Pulitzer in
1928. It certainly wasn't for his two unbelievably inaccurate
1912 and 1931 articles on the case, although he was present on
the fifth floor on April 24th.
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