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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 1396--------------------------------------------------
Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: guest5
Date: March 7, 2023, 5:53 pm
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My theory of Main or Major or Possible Motive was Provocation
from the police through the media. Suspect C Kniclo, at least,
likely came from or went through London and England, and shipped
with Englanders and Londoners. Why wouldn't they be provoked?
I looked for press reports slagging the London Met and London
police that were closer to 1891. The quotes attributed to Byrnes
was way back in October of 1888. He wasn't even the worst as far
as it goes. Superintendent William Murray was supposedly worse.
That was still 1888 though so too far back to be remembered
enough to cause provocation in 1891.
But I did find in a Wolf V dissertation that there were
newspaper reports later on that out-and-out called the Met
stupid and they go up to at least July 1889 with Alice
McKenzie's murder.
Could there have been more media attacks after Frances Coles in
1891?
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#Post#: 1397--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 7, 2023, 7:03 pm
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1. My theory of Main or Major or Possible Motive was Provocation
from the police through the media. Suspect C Kniclo, at least,
likely came from or went through London and England, and shipped
with Englanders and Londoners. Why wouldn't they be provoked?
2. I looked for press reports slagging the London Met and London
police that were closer to 1891. The quotes attributed to Byrnes
were way back in October of 1888. He wasn't even the worst as
far as it goes. Superintendent William Murray was supposedly
worse. That was still 1888 though so too far back to be
remembered enough to cause provocation in 1891.
3. Could there have been more media attacks after Frances Coles
in 1891?
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1. I don't understand what you're trying to get across. Are you
suggesting that C. Kniclo, because he supposedly came from
London, was somehow provoked by the remarks made by NYPD
personages and committed murder as a result ? Or are you saying
that the Met was irritated that the NYPD broke their balls for
their inability to apprehend the Whitechapel Murderer ?
2. Inspector Murray did make some flippant remarks ( NYPD track
record vs. any other constabulary was second to none, so he felt
he had bragging rights......still happens today, means nothing,
and is forgotten shortly afterwards). New York papers, like
Pulitzer's NY Evening World, had one edition featuring a sketch
of Byrnes sweating while officers from European cities stood
behind him bemused.
The real ball buster was Ali trial Judge Smyth. He said the
London police were blockheads.
3. I personally don't recall any terms of endearment being
published in NYC papers in the 10 week period between the Coles'
murder and Brown's. I'll give it the once over twice tomorrow
to see if anything was overlooked.
#Post#: 1398--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 8, 2023, 7:24 am
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I found 5 articles of note which comment on the London ( Met)
Police between February 13 and March 21st, 1891.
I also included the NY Herald article from October 3rd, 1888 in
which Judge Smyth, British-born criminal attorney William Howe,
and others chime in on the Whitechapel case.
Articles in order :
1. New York Evening World Friday February 13, 1891
2. New York Sun Sunday February 15, 1891
3. New York Times Sunday February 15, 1891
4. New York World Sunday March 8th, 1891
5. New York Sun Saturday March 21, 1891
6. NY Herald Wednesday October 3, 1888
#Post#: 1399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 8, 2023, 5:45 pm
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A few articles post-murder referring Whitechapel or London
In two PDFs
1. NY Tribune April 23, 1891
2-5. NY tribune April 25, 1891
6. NY Tribune April 29, 1891
Part One below
#Post#: 1400--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 8, 2023, 5:46 pm
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Part Two below
#Post#: 1401--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 8, 2023, 6:17 pm
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One more for the road.
San Francisco Examiner
December 28, 1890
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HTML https://i.imgur.com/LUkfpk4.jpg
#Post#: 1402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: guest5
Date: March 8, 2023, 7:05 pm
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5. New York Sun Saturday March 21, 1891
This article is a good example. A young Englishman barely just
arrived in the US, kept hearing how the American detectives were
so good and would have caught the Ripper in no time, decided to
pick on a detective and play a practical joke on him.
He gave false information on the Ruttinger Murder Mystery in NY
claiming William Wright conspired with a thug from Birmingham
named Big Joe Welsh, and Capt. Blake of Staten Island followed
up on it, even making inquires in England.
Byrnes took over that case according to the article. It seems
the Englishman played the same prank more than once.
HTML http://www.murderbygaslight.com/2019/02/the-ruttinger-mystery.html
#Post#: 1403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: guest5
Date: March 8, 2023, 7:15 pm
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The New York Times is so "bad" in this regard. By comparison,
the Sun just says the London Police are "soreheads" and have no
manpower.
New York Times Sunday February 15 1891
It is by no means clear that this tenth Whitechapel murder is by
the same hand as the others, but there is enough similarity to
make ascription to Jack the Ripper natural. If anything, there
is more excitement in East London over this newest addition to
the list than there was when the last occurred, in September
1889. Of course, there are a multitude of theories advanced, and
it seems that several people really saw the man who it is
assumed is the murderer talking with his victim. But such a mass
of ignorant liars always turns up on such occasions that it is
difficult to choose between the varying descriptions given of
the suspected man, and nobody dreams of expecting that the
police will track down the miscreant. The policeman who
discovered the body did hear retreating footsteps after he
realized it was a murder, but it did not occur to him to pursue.
The explanation given that he is a young man from the country
only six weeks on the force is accepted as satisfactory by
everybody.
There is also much doubt whether the man arrested to-day is
guilty of yesterday's crime, let alone the others. The police
here, so far from giving information, think it sagacious to deny
everything, and hence there are no means of corroborating or
checking the rumors of which the town is full. Even if the
prisoner proves to be Jack the Ripper, his arrest will give no
credit to the police, for he had actually been stopped this
morning by a Sergeant, questioned, and allowed to go away before
a civilian's suspicions caused his apprehension.
#Post#: 1404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 9, 2023, 3:17 am
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This article is a good example. A young Englishman barely just
arrived in the US, kept hearing how the American detectives were
so good and would have caught the Ripper in no time, decided to
pick on a detective and play a practical joke on him.
I fail to to see how some guy playing a joke and getting caught
at it...is the same as someone committing a murder in NYC in
which there is zero evidence that the murder was part of a plan
to show up the NYPD based on a few newspaper reports critical of
the Met.
Besides, the snide remarks found in a few NYC newspapers weren't
found in all or even a majority of available NYC papers
#Post#: 1405--------------------------------------------------
Re: Media Disparagement of Met and Possible Provocation
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: March 9, 2023, 3:31 am
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Fall River Globe
April 25, 1891
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