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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 6129--------------------------------------------------
Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 12, 2026, 9:17 am
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There's something decidedly un-kosher about these four
paragraphs.....what's wrong with them?
Here's four to start off with.....
All are welcome to try and stump the other fella.... ;D
-------------------------------------------------------------
1- On a late Spring day in 1901, George Damon, accompanied by
attorney Ovide Robillard, and newspaper
editor, Robert Gordon Butler, went to the Mulberry Street police
station to inquire whether or not they
had a photograph of Amer Ben Ali to compare to the description
of Damon's farmhand.
The detective in charge informed the trio that they had no
photos on file.
Shortly afterwards, a photograph was obtained from the Warden of
Sing Sing prison for comparison purposes
and at this point it was determined that the two men did not
resemble each other.
2- Doctors Formad and Flint conducted tests on the material
extracted from Ali's nails, a feat undertaken four
days after Ali's arrest by Detective Frink. In the material,
there were traces of Carrie Brown having eaten
corned beef and cabbage. This supported the story told by Alice
Sullivan, who ate with Carrie Brown on the
23rd at around 4:00-4:30 pm at Speckman's Saloon.
3- Although not capital crimes, Amer Ben Ali did have a number
of assaults and negative interactions with women
from the vicinity of the East River Hotel. One of them, a Mrs.
Finnegan, who lived on James Street, told reporters
that she took a baseball bat and threatened Ali. Another woman,
Mary Harrington, also had an encounter with
Ali in which she threatened him with a baseball bat. One woman,
Dublin Mary Briscoe, was smacked around in
Harrington's home in the summer of 1890. One other woman, Mary
Ann Lopez, pressed charges against Ali
for an attack that occurred in February 1891, one month before
Ali was arrested for vagrancy in Queens. This
resume did not speak well for Ali.
4-Beside Mary Miniter, there may have only been one witness in
the area that saw Carrie Brown and C. Kniclo
on April 23rd. Try as they might, the police came up short with
the exception of a man named Henry Decenwether,
a tailor who had a shop near the intersection of Oak and Oliver
Streets. He told the police that he was with
Dublin Mary Briscoe in Speckman's Saloon when he saw a man
closely resembling the man described by Miniter.
Brought into the police station shortly after the crime,
Decenwether was told by the police to be quiet about their
conversation.
#Post#: 6130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 12, 2026, 1:29 pm
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5. On May 1st, 1891, Carrie Brown's body was buried in Greenlawn
Cemetery, before
family members and undertaker Frank Smith. Her body arrived in
Salem late on April
30th, via train. Her body was placed in a zinc-lined coffin and
would never be exposed
to view again.
6. At the Coroner's Inquest, Alice Sullivan, a widow woman who
once lived in Detroit,
where her husband was a cooper, testified that she hadn't been
in the East River Hotel
for five years. At the trial, she was asked approximately 100
questions. That she spent two
years in a penitentiary for stealing a watch would be brought
out at the trial. At the trial,
Sullivan told the Court that Carrie Brown told her that she
(Brown) worked in Brooklyn.
7. Although some newspapers struggled to identify who the murder
victim in Room 31 was,
it was determined rather quickly by authorities on April 25th.
Inspector Byrnes had in his possession a tin-type of Carrie
Brown's image on the 25th. At the Coroner's
Inquest, Catherine McGovern, who knew Carrie, identified her for
Coroner Schultz and the
panel of jurors. The only question that perplexed people was her
nickname, shared by at least one other person
in the Lower East Side.
#Post#: 6131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: January 12, 2026, 5:03 pm
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--- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
>
> There's something decidedly un-kosher about these four
paragraphs.....what's wrong with them?
>
>
> Here's four to start off with.....
>
> All are welcome to try and stump the other fella.... ;D
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Testing my memory...that's why I like to double-check things,
so I don't have to rely on memory!
> But ok, let's try...
>
>
> 1- On a late Spring day in 1901, George Damon, accompanied by
attorney Ovide Robillard, and newspaper
> editor, Robert Gordon Butler, went to the Mulberry Street
police station to inquire whether or not they
> had a photograph of Amer Ben Ali to compare to the description
of Damon's farmhand.
> The detective in charge informed the trio that they had no
photos on file.
> Shortly afterwards, a photograph was obtained from the Warden
of Sing Sing prison for comparison purposes
> and at this point it was determined that the two men did not
resemble each other.
>
> It was not determined that they did not look alike
> 2- Doctors Formad and Flint conducted tests on the material
extracted from Ali's nails, a feat undertaken four
> days after Ali's arrest by Detective Frink. In the material,
there were traces of Carrie Brown having eaten
> corned beef and cabbage. This supported the story told by
Alice Sullivan, who ate with Carrie Brown on the
> 23rd at around 4:00-4:30 pm at Speckman's Saloon.
>
> Erm, traces of Carrie Brown? They didn't have DNA! I think
I'll say there were traces of some liquids, tyrosin? or similar
that is found only in the small intestine. But I think it did
show traces of corned beef and cabbage. Wait, maybe she didn't
eat with Alice Sullivan? Who did she eat with?? I can't
remember!
>
> 3- Although not capital crimes, Amer Ben Ali did have a number
of assaults and negative interactions with women
> from the vicinity of the East River Hotel. One of them, a Mrs.
Finnegan, who lived on James Street, told reporters
> that she took a baseball bat and threatened Ali. Another
woman, Mary Harrington, also had an encounter with
> Ali in which she threatened him with a baseball bat. One
woman, Dublin Mary Briscoe, was smacked around in
> Harrington's home in the summer of 1890. One other woman, Mary
Ann Lopez, pressed charges against Ali
> for an attack that occurred in February 1891, one month
before Ali was arrested for vagrancy in Queens. This
> resume did not speak well for Ali.
> I don't think Mrs. Finnegan attacked him, did she?
> 4-Beside Mary Miniter, there may have only been one witness in
the area that saw Carrie Brown and C. Kniclo
> on April 23rd. Try as they might, the police came up short
with the exception of a man named Henry Decenwether,
> a tailor who had a shop near the intersection of Oak and
Oliver Streets. He told the police that he was with
> Dublin Mary Briscoe in Speckman's Saloon when he saw a man
closely resembling the man described by Miniter.
> Brought into the police station shortly after the crime,
Decenwether was told by the police to be quiet about their
conversation.
> Decenwether was a barber, not a tailor
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 6132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: January 12, 2026, 5:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
>
> 5. On May 1st, 1891, Carrie Brown's body was buried in
Greenlawn Cemetery, before
> family members and undertaker Frank Smith. Her body arrived in
Salem late on April
> 30th, via train. Her body was placed in a zinc-lined coffin
and would never be exposed
> to view again.
> Hmmm, I don't remember ever reading the zinc-lined detail
before, so I 'll go with that.
> 6. At the Coroner's Inquest, Alice Sullivan, a widow woman who
once lived in Detroit,
> where her husband was a cooper, testified that she hadn't been
in the East River Hotel
> for five years. At the trial, she was asked approximately 100
questions. That she spent two
> years in a penitentiary for stealing a watch would be brought
out at the trial. At the trial,
> Sullivan told the Court that Carrie Brown told her that she
(Brown) worked in Brooklyn.
> She worked in Brooklyn? No, she didn't say that. Maybe she
said she had once worked there.
> 7. Although some newspapers struggled to identify who the
murder victim in Room 31 was,
> it was determined rather quickly by authorities on April 25th.
> Inspector Byrnes had in his possession a tin-type of Carrie
Brown's image on the 25th. At the Coroner's
> Inquest, Catherine McGovern, who knew Carrie, identified her
for Coroner Schultz and the
> panel of jurors. The only question that perplexed people was
her nickname, shared by at least one other person
> in the Lower East Side.
> McGovern didn't testify at the inquest
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 6133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 12, 2026, 6:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Pete:
Alright, Mr. Smartypants!
Answers:
1- The photograph was sent by the Matteawan State Asylum...not
Sing Sing.
2. There were traces of the food Carrie ate in the material
under his nails.. Poorly phrased on my part. Brown
and Sullivan ate at George's ( Bartmer) on Roosevelt &
Water Street.
3. No, Finnegan didn't attack him, but did grab a bat, which
can be looked at as a threat.
The false part of the paragraph is that Lopez was assaulted
in February 1891. It was September 1890.
4. CORRECT......Decenwether was a barber.
5- She was buried in Harmony Grove Cemetery.
6- Alice Sullivan and her husband lived in Chicago. Sullivan
did tell the Court
that Carrie told her she worked in Brooklyn.
7- CORRECT. McGovern didn't testify at the Coroner's Inquest.
She did testify at the trial.
#Post#: 6134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 12, 2026, 6:55 pm
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Pete:
This is from Sullivan's trial testimony.
A. Only that day, I said I took a walk with her down to Oak
Street and then to Water.
Q. That was the first time that you ever went out with her, but
as a fact you knew Old
Shakespeare, and you knew that she was an old woman?
A. Certainly.
Q. And you know that she occasionally did meet men, didn’t you
know that?
A. No, sir; I never did; I thought that she left her place for
something; she said she worked in
Brooklyn.
She also said she first met Carrie Brown on Easter
Monday.....which was impossible, since
Carrie didn't return from Blackwell's Island until April 16th.
Easter Monday 1891 was March 30th.
Sullivan didn't get home from Bellevue until March 22nd.
No big deal....probably a glitch in her memory.
This link....last post on the thread....concerns her burial. I
didn't know that there was some resistance
from the police to send her back to Salem....unless it's a
misunderstanding.
HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com/general-discussion/carrie-brown-101/msg6136/#new
#Post#: 6136--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: January 13, 2026, 12:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Howard Brown link ---
>
> There's something decidedly un-kosher about these four
paragraphs.....what's wrong with them?
>
>
> Here's four to start off with.....
>
> All are welcome to try and stump the other fella.... ;D
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Testing my memory? I like to double-check things because
otherwise I forget! But let’s try…
>
> 1- On a late Spring day in 1901, George Damon, accompanied by
attorney Ovide Robillard, and newspaper
> editor, Robert Gordon Butler, went to the Mulberry Street
police station to inquire whether or not they
> had a photograph of Amer Ben Ali to compare to the description
of Damon's farmhand.
> The detective in charge informed the trio that they had no
photos on file.
> Shortly afterwards, a photograph was obtained from the Warden
of Sing Sing prison for comparison purposes
> and at this point it was determined that the two men did not
resemble each other.
>
> They were not determined
> 2- Doctors Formad and Flint conducted tests on the material
extracted from Ali's nails, a feat undertaken four
> days after Ali's arrest by Detective Frink. In the material,
there were traces of Carrie Brown having eaten
> corned beef and cabbage. This supported the story told by
Alice Sullivan, who ate with Carrie Brown on the
> 23rd at around 4:00-4:30 pm at Speckman's Saloon.
>
> 3- Although not capital crimes, Amer Ben Ali did have a number
of assaults and negative interactions with women
> from the vicinity of the East River Hotel. One of them, a Mrs.
Finnegan, who lived on James Street, told reporters
> that she took a baseball bat and threatened Ali. Another
woman, Mary Harrington, also had an encounter with
> Ali in which she threatened him with a baseball bat. One
woman, Dublin Mary Briscoe, was smacked around in
> Harrington's home in the summer of 1890. One other woman, Mary
Ann Lopez, pressed charges against Ali
> for an attack that occurred in February 1891, one month
before Ali was arrested for vagrancy in Queens. This
> resume did not speak well for Ali.
>
> 4-Beside Mary Miniter, there may have only been one witness in
the area that saw Carrie Brown and C. Kniclo
> on April 23rd. Try as they might, the police came up short
with the exception of a man named Henry Decenwether,
> a tailor who had a shop near the intersection of Oak and
Oliver Streets. He told the police that he was with
> Dublin Mary Briscoe in Speckman's Saloon when he saw a man
closely resembling the man described by Miniter.
> Brought into the police station shortly after the crime,
Decenwether was told by the police to be quiet about their
conversation.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ouch, I did really badly!
See, this is why I check and doublecheck :)
#Post#: 6137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 13, 2026, 4:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ouch, I did really badly!
See, this is why I check and double check....
No talking your way out of it, pal....you're going straight to
Hell ![emoji83]
I'll make up more later today....
#Post#: 6138--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 13, 2026, 6:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
8. The Coroner's Inquest was originally planned for May 1st, but
postponed upon the
request of the District Attorney's Office. None of the original
jurors appeared on May
13-14.
The men who appeared at the Inquest included some very wealthy
men. Included among
them was Thomas Brennan, Foreman, Jacob Ruppert, Sr., Charles
Iden, James Trainor,
and August Strassburg. Ruppert was related to one of the men.
Ali was indicted on May
18th.
9. Among the few effects found in Room 31 on April 24th were
Carrie's muslin bag and two
pairs of old-fashioned spectacles. Her checked gingham skirt lay
in the corner of the room. There
were no coins or paper money in the muslin bag. A shoe was used
to prop up one of the windows
up, the window on the Water Street side of the building.
10. Several women were taken to the police station, along with
William Bekle, during the first
two days of the investigation. Ali was arrested on April 24th.
Inspector Byrnes was compelled
to move from headquarters on Oak Street to Mulberry Street to
head the inquiry, due to the
volume of people being brought in. Ali would be taken to the
Tombs on May 2nd, the day after
the aborted Coroner's Inquest.
#Post#: 6139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Two Minute Mysteries
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: January 13, 2026, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
11. Governor Benjamin Odell contacted NYC DA Eugene Philbin in
early Summer 1901
and asked him to verify whether the key turned in by George
Damon matched those
in use at the East River Hotel. Philbin sent one of the
detectives who were active back
in 1891, William McLaughlin, to get in touch with the former
proprietor of the hotel,
James Jennings, and to ask Jennings to see if Damon's key was
the type in use a decade
earlier.
12. Judge Fred Smyth announced at 10:30 am to all present in
the court room on June 29th, that he
decided to permit the jurists to see the room where the murder
took place. Five members of the
Court Squad ( Michael O'Bierne, John Miller, Thomas Booth,
Martin McAnnerny, and Charles
Reilly) guarded against any persons communicating with the
jurors. Attorney Manny Friend literally
begged Judge Smyth to allow Sgt. Crowley to accompany the jurors
( and himself, along with House and Levy)
upstairs to prevent any problems with men and women milling
around idly in the hotel.
13. After Coroner Schultze concluded his business in Room 31,
within two hours, police officers would
begin removing all of Carrie Brown's possessions and clothes and
take them to the Mulberry Street
police station. This included her muslin bag with the pairs of
spectacles, and of course, the clothes she
wore on her back.
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