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Carrie Brown : Murder In The East River Hotel
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#Post#: 5385--------------------------------------------------
Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: August 30, 2025, 4:11 pm
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I have not seen this article before, thought it was interesting.
From The Oneonta Daily Star, July 10th, 1891
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
I forget where Byrnes got the photo of Brown from, I know it's
mentioned somewhere that he got it, but I've forgotten whether
it's actually known who supplied it?
I suppose I assume it was the daughter, who else would have one
in NYC. In this article it's just a 'friend', but it seems all
of Carrie Brown's "friends" - several of the women who testified
at trial knew her mostly from sight, I think - were pretty much
destitute and nigh-homeless.
The artist here is mentioned as being "first on the scene", not
sure that is true but I believe it must be the artist from the
Evening World, as the sketch of Carrie Brown is similar to the
one from that paper.
#Post#: 5386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: August 30, 2025, 4:32 pm
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Pete:
I was surprised that Byrnes had his hands on the tintype on
April 25th...at the latest.
HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com/general-discussion/carrie-brown/msg1851/#msg1851
The Boston Globe ( New York dateline... April 25)
I posted the 'Wages of Sin' article, here....a while back.
HTML https://carriebrown.createaforum.com/general-discussion/'the-wages-of-sin'/msg3440/#msg3440
Thanks for including this one, buddy.
If I had to guess, I'd say Catherine McGovern may have been the
person who handed in the tintype.
And I'd wager that it was the New York Evening World where the
two papers lifted the sketch of Carrie Brown.
#Post#: 5388--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: August 30, 2025, 5:03 pm
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Thanks, I did not recall seeing the article before.
Yes, I recalled Byrnes having the photo very early on, so it did
not come from the daughter, but then who would have it?
#Post#: 5389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: August 30, 2025, 5:12 pm
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Pete:
I'd say Catherine McGovern might be the source.
Although Mary Healy was the first to identify her by her name,
it was McGovern who was credited with
identifying her at the trial. She was either summoned or
requested to sit in at the Inquest, but did not testify.
From the Ali Trial:
CATHERINE McGOVERN, a witness called on behalf of the People,
being duly sworn
, testified as follows :
Direct Examination by Mr. Wellman :
W: Did you know Carrie Brown in her lifetime ?
McG: Yes
W: How long had you known her ?
McG: Well, about 15 or 16 years.
W: How old a woman was she ?
McG: I could not say as to her age, but I knew her that length
of time.
W: Did you see her on the morning of April 24th, Friday morning
?
McG: I could not say what day it was, but I saw her dead in bed.
W: Where did you see her dead in bed ?
McG In the 4th Ward Hotel as you call it.
W: On what floor ?
McG: On the third floor, they said Room 31; it was a corner
room.
W: Whom did you go into the corner room, 31, with ?
McG: I went with the officer
W: Officer Crowley
McG: Yes sir
W: You saw her in bed dead ?
McG : Yes sir
W: You recognized that it was Carrie Brown ?
McG: Yes sir, truly
I do not think she was a prostitute, as no aspersions to her
character are mentioned by the press.
If that's true, that she wasn't a prostitute, then Carrie had
friends who weren't 'in the life'
around the time of her death.
Could she have read the early papers ( 24th & 25th ) and learned
her friend or possible fellow lodger
was the victim?
Pete....one reason I think it might have been McGovern is that
there was no way for Byrnes to have received
the tintype that quickly....to have it by the 25th.
#Post#: 5390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: August 30, 2025, 5:41 pm
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Seems very likely to be her, Howard, I agree.
#Post#: 5391--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: August 30, 2025, 6:11 pm
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Pete:
I found three widows named Catherine McGovern in Manhattan for
1891.....which means nothing.
We don't know if the woman was a Manhattanite or from Brooklyn.
We don't know if she had a living
husband, either.
She'll be, I think, impossible to pinpoint.
#Post#: 7308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: Kattrup
Date: September 5, 2026, 5:33 am
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Just adding this mention of a drunk Kate McGovern not too far
from the hotel. From Evening Post Dec. 8 1892
[attachimg=1]
As you wrote, with no further info, it's impossible to tell if
it's actually her.
#Post#: 7309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Appearance over time: Carrie Brown and Ali
DIR By: HowBrown1953
Date: September 5, 2026, 8:24 am
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Pete:
Leroy Street is in the West Village on the West Side.
McGovern had Carrie's tintype photo and possibly any other
possessions that she didn't walk around with.
A screenshot of 64 Leroy Street.
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7301396,-74.005347,7a,87.9y,108.96h,110.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZ5gVm1jkdie-1iEzWigf1g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-20.74577767209189%26panoid%3DZ5gVm1jkdie-1iEzWigf1g%26yaw%3D108.95962878604263!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDkwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
The route from Leroy Street to Catherine Slip:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Leroy+St,+New+York,+NY+10014/Catherine+Slip,+New+York,+NY/@40.7203071,-74.0132028,3418m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c259ed32eb3fd3:0x57b0b6eb6f2cbea8!2m2!1d-74.0068387!2d40.7302317!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c25a25a9a36c19:0x98a2daf4f38c78bb!2m2!1d-73.9970565!2d40.709681?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDkwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Hopefully, she'll definitely turn up in our hunt.
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