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#Post#: 1620--------------------------------------------------
Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: Griff Grof Date: July 6, 2012, 4:59 pm
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It's about a year since they realeased Geocaching Challenges,
and I think we can all agree they never really took off. I
personally don't like them very much, it doesn't fit with my
view of the game.
All this made me think - We know what happened to Virtuals,
Webcams and Locationless caches - they made their way over to
Waymarking.com from Geocaching.com... We all demanded Virtuals
to come back, and they gave us challenges - but what about
Earthcaches?
If they can keep Earthcaches on Geocaching.com, then why can't
they have the rest of them (Virtuals, Webcams and
Locationless), Earthcaches are virtual too - or is it just a
matter of time before Earthcaches move over to Waymarking too?
I can't see why they can't have them all on Geocaching.com, but
why Earthcaches and not the rest?
PS - funny how Groundspeak shut the Feedback site down when the
Virtual type wasn't re-introduced, and challenges were brought
in :D
#Post#: 1621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: walktall Date: July 7, 2012, 5:02 am
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Well like a lot of cachers, I took the mickey out of Challenges
when they first came out. Even now, they don't fit in with any
of the other cache types, even the old ones:
[list]
[li]You publish a Challenge and then have now control over it,
you loose ownership :o
[/li]
[li]You can't delete logs of people who obviously haven't
completed the Challenge ::) :o[/li]
[li]You can't PQ for Challenges ???[/li]
[li]They have vague dates i.e. don't show the actual date it was
created or the date when you completed it >:([/li]
[li]You can't download them ??? :([/li]
[/list]
I see that there is potentially going to be two new Challenge
cache types: Discover Challenge & QR Challenge
HTML http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/types.aspx
(coming soon)
:o :o :o
Otherwise, they are brilliant :P
Better keep quiet about Earth caches, or they may well move them
off Geocaching :'(
#Post#: 1622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: Griff Grof Date: July 7, 2012, 6:26 am
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QR challenge - basically a Munzee :o (visit link
HTML http://www.munzee.com/)
Why are they brilliant? :P I'm sure we'd all prefer to find a
virtual - but actually, now that they're Grandfathered, they
seem to feel more special when you find them.
Why were all Locationless caches archived? Shouldn't they have
been Grandfathered... I believe they are the only cache type to
have been wiped out completely - and when people kept on logging
them, reviewers locked every single lising >:(
#Post#: 1624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: walktall Date: July 7, 2012, 7:28 am
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[quote author=Griff Grof link=topic=115.msg1622#msg1622
date=1341660376]
QR challenge - basically a Munzee :o (visit link
HTML http://www.munzee.com/)
[/quote]
Yes, so limited to a few people who have the technology.
[quote author=Griff Grof link=topic=115.msg1622#msg1622
date=1341660376]
Why are they brilliant? :P
[/quote]
Didn't you notice the tongue? That was sarcasm - failing badly
::)
[quote author=Griff Grof link=topic=115.msg1622#msg1622
date=1341660376]
Why were all Locationless caches archived?
[/quote]
Because they didn't like them anymore ???
#Post#: 1626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: Griff Grof Date: July 7, 2012, 7:51 am
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I agree.
I didn't notice the sarcasm, now I do :D.
I wonder why they didn't like them :-\
This is like Q&A :D
#Post#: 1649--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: Griff Grof Date: July 10, 2012, 2:33 pm
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We need a reviewer on this forum, one similar thread I started
on another forum, and we have Deci posting essays, so I thought
I would quote them over here :D If you can be bothered to read
it, it's long!!
[quote]Ok here's some background
Virtual/Webcam/Locationless caches, were created at a time when
there was very few physical caches, to give members something to
go and find. Remembering that Geocaching is about hiding and
finding a Physical Container and signing the log book when
you've found it.
Ok Locationless caches were deemed not to meet the ideals of
Geocaching at all. Plus there was a secondary reasoning, in that
the Yellow Jeep Locationless cache was killing the Site, at a
time when it used to crash multiple times a day, due the the
fact it could not handle the traffic*.
Now for those not familiar with Locationless Caches, the Owner
selected a Specific object or feature, for example Stone
Bridges. and provided a description of that feature and the
Coordinates as the location of the Listing. The Finder then had
to find their own feature matching that, and go and take
coordinates for it, a photograph and a description/history. Each
find had to be at a unique location
One of the most Popular Locationless caches, was the Yellow Jeep
(not the TB, but real Jeeps yellow in colour). when the
Locationless caches were pulled (they were completely removed
and not Archived), the Yellow Jeep Locationless cache, had more
than 1,100 finds (at that time the busiest caches, were lucky to
have 50-75 finds). Now this was at a time, when they system
could not cope with the traffic to the site, and the cache page
constantly crashed the site.
Webcam Caches, again they were deemed not to meet the ideas of
Geocaching again, as there was no physical container holding a
log book to find.
Virtual Caches, well it was not just rubbishy locations that
killed them off. Two famous unpublished Virtual caches towards
the end of them. Were I've left a Sneaker, at xyz in the Woods.
To claim a find, email me with the Name of the Manufacturer, and
the Color (notice I've used the US spelling as that was where
the submission was located), now repeat for Golf Ball/Tennis
ball. And yes al 3 examples are true! Despite again a decision
that Virtual Caches did not meet the ideals of Geocaching, in
that there was not a physical container. A attempt was made to
save them with the Introduction of the WOW! factor. So the
Virtual submission had to have a WOW! factor to be published.
But just like Power Trails, (the current Power Trails at 0.1
miles under the old Power Trail Guideline would not be
publishable) no one could provide a definition of what one was
(caches at 0.1 miles or even caches at 0.25 miles), no one could
provide a definition of the WOW! factor. This created so much
angst and arguments between those submitting Virtual caches, and
those Reviewing them, that those Reviewers from that period who
are still active Reviewers (this period was late 04 early 05)
shudder at the mere mention of Virtuals.
Whilst the above was going on, Groundspeak were working on a
replacement for Virtuals/Locationless/Webcam caches, one that
was designed to be a Sister Site to GC. That site is Waymarking,
which sadly due to other major projects on GC, plans for the
site are on the back burner.
Wherigo started off as a joint project between Groundspeak and
Garmin . And Groundspeak did have a more stable Cartridge
Creator and Pocket Pc software in testing. But this was not
compatible with what Garmin decided to develop (Garmin were at
the forefront of Smart Phones, with their Nuvi. But messed up
the implementation of it, so sales were poor. So they completely
dropped the whole model range. Only for the Smartphone market to
take off like a rocket). Groundspeak had no warning, when all of
a sudden Garmin Announced to the World, their new models, which
featured Wherigo. Now remembering that the Garmin implementation
was not compatible with what Groundspeak were developing.
Groundspeak were suddenly in the position of creating Wherigo
software, that was compatible with Garmins software, in a very
short period of time. Sadly that software proved to be very
flaky, and as there was no economic reason to develop the whole
platform any further at that time. It was put on the back burner
as well. Though Jeremy plans at some unknown point in the
future, to get back to developing it, into the Platform it could
be.
Now we come to Earthcaches, first off please understand. These
are not a Groundspeak product, Geocaching.com is just the Host,
and provides experienced Volunteers to Review them. Earthcaches
are a Project belonging to The Geological Society of
America-GSA. geoaware (not to be confused with geoaware UK2, who
is a volunteer) and geoawareHQ are GSA employee's, not
Groundspeak employee's or Volunteers. GSA are responsible for
setting the Educational requirements of Earthcaches, and the
educational logging requirements of them
At one point Groundspeak did move Earthcaches to Waymarking.com,
but after the move, the logging of Earthcaches, dropped to
virtually nothing. After discusions between Groundspeak and GSA,
Groundspeak moved Earthcaches back to GC. And a huge revamp of
them took place, which resulted in the tougher Educational
requirements, with already published EC's being required to be
brought up to the new standard, at the Time, I was acting as the
Guardian of Billy Twigers** caches, and had to work with a local
cacher, to bring Ewans EC's up to the required Standards.
Because EC's are a GSA Project and not a Groundspeak one, they
can not and should not be compared to Virtual caches.
Because of the clamour to bring back Virtual caches, and because
of all the negativity about them, when the type was originally
active. Groundspeak decided not to bring back Virtuals in there
previous incarnation. And instead created Challenges.
*Ok a potted history of GC. Geocaching.com started off as a list
on a usnet discussion group. And from that list which had to be
manually updated. Jeremy Irish scratch built a hobby site. As
the site got bigger, he enrolled 2 work colleagues in to helping
him. At that time they worked for a Promotions company, who
kindly let them Screen print 40 T shirts. The sales of these
went on the initial development of Grounded Inc, which was to
turn into Groundspeak the owners of GC. Originally GC was Hosted
on a PC in Jerem'ys Basement, and al lthe coding was scratch
created using hobby code. As the site developed, more hobby code
and features were added, and the site received more traffic.
Issues arose, because the PC the site was Hosted on, nor the
scratch coding, could handle the amount of traffic being
received. As Groundspeak developed over the years, more powerful
Servers were purchased, and even Commercial Software was
purchased, this had to then be heavily modified and cobbled to
the scratch hobby code at the core of the site. Over time with
the growth of the hobby, the site was receiving more unique
traffic altering the Database in unique ways, than Major banks
recieve in a day (Banks work with constant known variables,
Geocaching.com, has a Database constantly being updated by user
in unique ways) that it was constantly crashing. Want to log 15
finds from a weekend (when I became a Reviewer, 15 cache
submissions for the whole of the UK for a Saturday or Sunday was
a busy workload), could take until Wednesday or occasionally
Thursday . With more revenue coming in as the site grew,
Groundspeak invested better Commercial Software to repalce the
Scratch Hobby code, better servers. Which were eventually moved
into a Server Farm. Since then they have continually upgraded
the Database Servers, Photograph Server and Email Server. And
the outages are now minor ones.
**for those who don't know him. Ewan from the Highlands of
Scotland, and a highly respected cacher. Was setting a new cache
with his 12 year old. He took a fall off a small cliff face,
landing on his neck on a stone. Ewan was casevaced out by
helicopter the location was so remote. As a result of his injury
he was in a coma, and a Quadriplegic. He spent 3 years in and
out of a coma in hospital, and sadly 3 weeks before he was due
to come home. He passed away. During that time, due to the
respect the community had for him. With the aid of the local
community, I kept all his caches active, hoping that he would
recover enough to take back on the management of them. At his
Fathers request, after he passed away, I worked with Groundspeak
arranging for all the caches to be adopted out.
The Original Feedback Site used by Groundspeak, was extremely
buggy, and the Customer Service provided to them, was virtually
non existent. A small group out for trouble caused the Feedback
area to be closed down a number of times, and Groundspeak got
poor resolution off the Sites owners, as Groundspeak had no
Moderation powers, but were reliant on the Host. Issues
escalated. And the departure of Groundspeak and the Host
Company, was not on the Best of Terms. Groundspeak had gone to
this company, as they were providing In House Feed Back
Solutions of top 100 companies.
The next incarnation of Feedback, was brought to it's knees by a
group within the community, who were out to cause as many issues
for Groundspeak as possible. In that incarnation, Groundspeak
were solely responsible for the Moderation of the site. And due
to the fact that there was no tools, like used in forums, to
allow the explaining of the movement of topics, or the merging
of topics. This created further angst. So finally a decision was
made to close down that Feedback area, and move back to a Forum
based one.
There you go, I hope I've not provided the information in a junk
way.
Oh and as to your comments about existing Virtuals being of a
high standard, this is because those which were total rubbish,
have not survived. And got Archived, so the remaining Virtual
caches, are the best of the crop.
Deci[/quote]
#Post#: 1652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Earthcaches, and not the rest?
By: walktall Date: July 10, 2012, 6:54 pm
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Yes I did read it all, thank you Deci ;D
Still not much comment on Challenges and how a lot of cachers
here in the UK just don't do them. Why are they handled so
differently to other cache types ???
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