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#Post#: 763--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Gaia
Date: July 30, 2014, 11:37 am
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Thanks for the information, PUMA! Very interesting. Does anybody
know of any labs that sell it, or is it only used in Japan?
#Post#: 765--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: PUMA
Date: July 30, 2014, 1:45 pm
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I am not sure if it's only in Japan, i saw on the orthotropics
website that they were having courses for it in london earlier
this year but i haven't heard anything about the US. I think
someone should ask Dr Mew about whether it's avail in the west.
I am in the USA so I want to see someone in the USA, of course.
The thing is that RAMPA (as well as the crane and traditional
headgears) requires long hours of wear and according to Dr
Howell, this places too much stress and will not grow new bone.
#Post#: 766--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Gaia
Date: July 30, 2014, 4:05 pm
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--- Quote from: PUMA link ---
>
> The thing is that RAMPA (as well as the crane and traditional
headgears) requires long hours of wear and according to Dr
Howell, this places too much stress and will not grow new bone.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this information. It really
seems like we've got two opposing views here. One Howell/Plato
side that claims you shouldn't wear it for too long and one
Crane/Mew/RAMPA side that says you need to wear it for enough
hours during the day.
Back to the topic of moving the mandible back or forward. If you
look at the before-after picture of this woman's skull here:
HTML http://www.thecranencrp.com/beforeandafter.html
HTML http://www.thecranencrp.com/beforeandafter.html
It looks as if her mandible actually came forward quite a bit.
The heatmap thing also indicates this.
Another difference between Crane and RAMPA that I thought about
is the headgear pushing on the bones. Quote website for The
Crane:
"the CRANE is more effective than traditional methods of forward
pull because it's not using the mandible (considered an
anatomical joint) and facial bones (also subject to being pushed
in or moved) to "move" the maxilla forward. Question: Do
current methods of reverse pull the maxilla and facial bones out
OR are the mandible and facial bones actually being pushed in?"
If you look at this
HTML http://orthotropics.org/Education_and_Events/indexf.php?ACT=RAMPA_Right_Angle_Maxillary_Protraction_Applianc_orthotropics_therapy_Course_Tokyo_Japan_Dr_Yasushi_Mitani<br
/>picture of RAMPA, it pushes on the forehead (not sure if/how
that matters).
#Post#: 767--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Knoppe
Date: July 30, 2014, 4:42 pm
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I recieved "the Crane" today. If you get the right size, the
holder is movable so that you can get an upwards pulling force.
It's designed so that it pulls foward and upward without using
the head as leverage. The FaceMax is more or less a customised
american football helmet where the grillz are movable and
adjusted after proprioceptive testing. The FaceMax can therefore
pull with more force in one angle and on one side.
We'll see how the Crane works out. I'll be using it for at least
12 weeks.
#Post#: 768--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: PUMA
Date: July 31, 2014, 4:05 am
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I'm not able to quote you guys for some reason, hmmm. Maybe a
glitch.
Those xrays look good, i mean it looks like the jaws improved
for her. Her neck seems to have more of a curve too in the
after! But maybe it's also due to the head position too. Can
either of you read the measurements? I'd like to know how much
maxilla and mandible came forward.
Yes, the traditional headgear seems to push on the other bones
to bring the maxilla out.
For Rampa the placement is higher on the forehead. Rampa does
mention increasing anterior cranial base volume so I'm assuming
that it doesn't push back the forehead.
Anyway here is the article re: RAMPA. I can't find one with
adult patients though.
HTML https://dnaappliance.com/articles/Craniofacial-changes-in-patients-with-Class-III-malocclusion-treated-with-the-RAMPA-system.pdf
@knoppe,
That's great to know! So is your Crane adjusted to have a
forward and upward pull? How many degrees is it higher than your
occlusal plane? Atleast 12 weeks doesn't seem that long. How
many hrs do you have to wear it per day? What kind of appliance
do you wear for in the mouth?
Have you used facemax or done any facepulling?
I'm mostly likely going with facemax because i'm receiving NCR
from Dr Howell.
.
#Post#: 769--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Knoppe
Date: July 31, 2014, 10:22 am
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"@knoppe,
That's great to know! So is your Crane adjusted to have a
forward and upward pull? How many degrees is it higher than your
occlusal plane? Atleast 12 weeks doesn't seem that long. How
many hrs do you have to wear it per day? What kind of appliance
do you wear for in the mouth?
Have you used facemax or done any facepulling?
I'm mostly likely going with facemax because i'm receiving NCR
from Dr Howell."
I have no idea about the degrees. I didn't recieve any
instructions other than to wear it when I sleep, only use it
when I lay down and that's about it. I attatch the elastics to
the hooks in the wire of my bracers. I aim to get as close to an
upward pull as possible. Just as with the helmet.
I've done face pulling and noticed some results. It's a nice
stretch aswell. I'm in self litigating bracers aswell as upper
and lower ALF:s. You're right. 12 weeks isn't that long and my
ortho seems to expect minor results. I aim to prove him wrong!
The hooks now enable me to face pull without messing up the
brackets. Unfortunatly, they're positioned in front of the third
teeth and not the canines. I'll experiment with different
attatchment points of the rubber bands.
I'd also go for the FaceMax. Seems to me like it's the most
reliable and researched option. I'm not saying that the crane is
bad but I'm a bit conserned about the angle of pulling and also
the anchoring in the front of the mouth.
We'll see how it goes. So far, I slept horrible due to the neck
brace. It's a bit unfomfortable.
#Post#: 770--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: PUMA
Date: July 31, 2014, 2:35 pm
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I hope the comfortable level improves. Are you a back sleeper or
side sleeper? I'm a side sleeper myself but i also toss and turn
a lot.
Did your ortho recommend the 3rd teeth for the anchoring
location? So there needs to be hooks added for anchoring of the
ALF? I'm asking because i intend to get braces soon and i want
to know if braces needs special design for the anchoring.
#Post#: 771--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Knoppe
Date: August 1, 2014, 8:39 am
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--- Quote from: PUMA link ---
>
> I hope the comfortable level improves. Are you a back sleeper
or side sleeper? I'm a side sleeper myself but i also toss and
turn a lot.
>
> Did your ortho recommend the 3rd teeth for the anchoring
location? So there needs to be hooks added for anchoring of the
ALF? I'm asking because i intend to get braces soon and i want
to know if braces needs special design for the anchoring.
>
--- End Quote ---
We'll see. At this point I feel it's hit and miss with this
project.
He didn't say much about anything really. Nope, nothing with the
brackets are needed. The hooks are not on the ALF but on the
bracers (the wire). I know that it's possible to modify the ALF
to have hooks on it.
I was taught to sleep on my back by a "jaw specialist" 10 years
ago because of TMD issues. Used to sleep on my stomach. I
prefere sleeping on my side aswell but don't do it since it
messes with my jaw and shoulders.
What kind of bracers are you getting? Did you have any expansion
work done with an applience?
#Post#: 772--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: PUMA
Date: August 1, 2014, 1:34 pm
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Give it some time. Atleast you won't have to keep wearing it for
too long if it don't work out.
Any tips for sleeping on the back?
I want to get reg or Damon braces but also want to bring my jaw
forward, thus my interest in the face pulling headgear(s). I
have an open bite that needs to get fixed but i don't want to go
the splint route. I had bottom splints for 6 months and hate,
HATED, them. My jaw is probably not in the correct position but
i'm hoping facepulling will help with bringing both jaws
forward.
#Post#: 779--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Crane
DIR By: Gaia
Date: August 5, 2014, 3:49 pm
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Knoppe, this is very exciting! Great timing. ;)
So now that you've worn the Crane for a couple of days, have you
been able to do an upward pull? Does the "arm" in front extend
enough that you can get an upward angle?
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