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#Post#: 2011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Progress
Date: May 1, 2017, 3:59 pm
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--- Quote from: PaperBag link ---
>
> How are you becoming able to see others' beauty? Since
discovering claimingpower/this forum and the tropic premise in
general a year and a half ago, I can't help but judge, evaluate,
and categorize every face I see on TV and in public. It's
disheartening to look around and see so many people who could
look fantastic but didn't develop properly, so it feels like a
stretch to attribute negative qualities as a unique trait or
sign of individuality when those imperfections ideally wouldn't
be there at all, if that makes sense. This is just difference of
opinion, but I'd like to know how your perception of yourself is
increasing because now that I know exactly what's wrong with me,
getting complimented would feel extremely patronizing, although
you unlocked some good looks a while ago, assuming your old face
pulling results have held up.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very relatable. Learning to study faces can be really
disheartening. On an instinctual level there is a huge
difference in the vibe I get from mathematically proportional /
harmoniously grown face (even if the features themselves are
ugly) than when looking at a face with a disharmonious
structure.
It's cruel to say, I know, but a great face gives an appearance
of a wholesome and real personality, while disharmonious face
feels off in a way that is almost physically draining.
Harmonious and proportional faces give off the impression of a
coherent and distinct personality, while disharmonious faces are
"nobodies", as if you couldn't get a clear feel of their
personalities.
The reason for this, I believe, is that biologically the brain
is hard-wired to be able to automatically analyze a person's
many facial characteristics that the combination of bone & soft
tissue translates to in a proportional face. When the bone
structure is weak, recessed and not properly aligned with the
soft tissue, the brain will have a hard time analyzing the face.
The proportions and shapes of the improperly grown face are
different than what the brain has evolved to handle, giving the
brain less usable information from which to construct the mental
prototype of that person's personality, or vibe. This is why
proper facial growth almost always gives off a distinct sense of
unique personality and improper facial growth feels like a lack
of personality.
--- Quote from: Tyler link ---
> it led me to the recognition that beauty is not a matter of a
face being long or short or round or square, but rather very
high proportional beauty and uniformity is in every face so long
as the body is cultivated and purified. Both woman have a longer
face, so it cannot be the length of the face that determines the
beauty, but the health and cultivation and purity of the body
that determines that. A favourite book of fairytales also taught
me the same lesson, so then I deepened my recognition of the
truth in reality.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
A good argument supporting your point is that despite shapes of
the face and its characteristics varying wildly over the world,
harmonious and proportional faces can be found everywhere in all
continents and among all ethnicities. There may be phenotypes
with longer midface, such as the Brits, or phenotypes with broad
and round faces like in Asia, but the proportional rules that
make up a beautiful face are the same for all humans.
It's nice by the way how active the forum has been lately. There
seems to be a steady influx of new active users at the rate of
1-2 per month.
#Post#: 2012--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Tyler
Date: May 1, 2017, 4:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't know about that .. I think you may be taking it too far
now, and neglecting to view others as human, which is a real
danger and a risk. Even though the physicality of a person may
not show their inner nature and inner beauty as clearly on the
surface, there will still be a personality to be seen in the
eyes - always. It may only be that it is weak, but that is
really the real best place to look, isn't it? The outer may
change and it may even be great to achieve great beauty in the
external, but if the inner is worked on and cultivated, then it
is still better than to be beautiful on the outside but lifeless
and defeated by misery from within.
I can't exactly say that what you've written is completely
false, but in any case it appears to me too negative and, yes,
cruel as you had observed yourself. There is also the positive
to consider, that anybody can work on their body to bring it
into a better health and appearance, and even if the body isn't
able to be cultivated all that well due to disease or infirmity
or whatever, there will still be a relatively absolutely fully
developed personality there within, and there is a beauty still
to see. Anybody who is ready can see it still, even in the
infirm.
#Post#: 2013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Progress
Date: May 1, 2017, 4:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Tyler link ---
>
> I don't know about that .. I think you may be taking it too
far now, and neglecting to view others as human, which is a real
danger and a risk. Even though the physicality of a person may
not show their inner nature and inner beauty as clearly on the
surface, there will still be a personality to be seen in the
eyes - always. It may only be that it is weak, but that is
really the real best place to look, isn't it? The outer may
change and it may even be great to achieve great beauty in the
external, but if the inner is worked on and cultivated, then it
is still better than to be beautiful on the outside but lifeless
and defeated by misery from within.
>
> I can't exactly say that what you've written is completely
false, but in any case it appears to me too negative and, yes,
cruel as you had observed yourself. There is also the positive
to consider, that anybody can work on their body to bring it
into a better health and appearance, and even if the body isn't
able to be cultivated all that well due to disease or infirmity
or whatever, there will still be a relatively absolutely fully
developed personality there within, and there is a beauty still
to see. Anybody who is ready can see it still, even in the
infirm.
>
--- End Quote ---
I see where you're coming from. It is not of course as black and
white as my post may imply, I intentionally used such rhetorical
contrast to make my point clear.
Eyes are the most direct window to the soul, I agree, but
eyeballs alone don't provide much information. Most of the
impresssion is created by eyelids and the surrounding soft
tissue, position and shape of which is hugely influenced by the
underlying structure.
A great ersonality truly is the most important thing you can
have in life, but in the end the face is a filter through which
the personality shines. The personality creates the content,
while the face provides the context.
#Post#: 2014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Tyler
Date: May 1, 2017, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I understand the sense of your post, and it corroborates at
least partly with what I've studied about the matter as well. A
brighter, healthier face can lead to a more positive mood.
But it can't be true that beauty and personality only come from
the physicality of the body, because even invalids have a
creative spark in them, that essence of especialness that
doesn't die even if the body becomes too weak to move or becomes
damaged through a stroke or whatever.
I don't exactly disagree with what you posted, but think that
the work that we do on our bodies will go a lot better, if it is
viewed as bringing our already existent inner beauty to the
surface ... like letting the wonder trapped in a rose's seed
blossom in the rose's petels and leaves and stem. Because, there
are also very many beautiful people who don't have much inner
beauty or self-love, and I think that being externally beautiful
where self-love is lacking does not make them any more joyful
then, right?
(Then, also there is even the question, do you actually have any
self-love?)
So can there be no more treating this whole thing like it is a
way to make valueable what is worthless? Since with a name such
as "MeltedFace" and an attitude of critique, to me it appears
like there cannot be much real joy at the end, even if great
external beauty is achieved. But an attitude of self-refinement,
of letting the inner beauty simply come out to the surface
through working on the body ... there is a very nice thought in
that, in my opinion.
#Post#: 2015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: MeltedFace
Date: May 1, 2017, 8:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well I do have a melted face lol. My opinion of myself is good,
as i just want my health and outsides to match my insides. But
I'm brutally honest with myself... not so much with others. And
I think it's good that we all treat and try to see others as
valuable, in the face of our ow biological preference to respond
to beautiful appearances.
It's a balance of being self aware, apprecaitive, and
recognizing when we are responding to people (including
ourselves) a certain way and why...
#Post#: 2016--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: PaperBag
Date: May 2, 2017, 12:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MeltedFace link ---
>
> Thanks for being kind Tyler, and everyone else. I know we are
hard on ourselves... but I feel better always changing and
growing as a person all around, not just this one place. I've
got a Phoenix mindset you know?
>
--- End Quote ---
I forgot to mention in my post above that I wasn't referring to
you or implying that your photos reinforced my constant
judgement of people's faces. Not to be disingenuous, but you
look pretty good despite the asymmetry and other things. Like, I
see all of the issues that you've mentioned, but it's not
disastrous. I was considering making a thread asking how women
can have dystrophy and appear more harmonious than dystrophied
men (smaller skulls? less reliance on needing a broad chin?),
but the answer could probably be summed up in a single post.
--- Quote from: Tyler ---
> I've been there too, heavy in the evaluation of others.
>
> Actually, it's not easy to put into words how my outlook
changed, but these past years, I have been striving to connect
myself in conscious willingness to the creative, and striving to
broaden my acceptance of other forms of beauty.
>
> I have a somewhat longer face myself, and for a long time I
was haunted by it because I could not accept its logic. I also
used to see images of Sarah Jessica Parker, and let myself be
influenced by the poison against her that's spread in the media,
which in turn poisoned me against my own longer face type.
>
> One day, though, I looked at her image from youth, and saw
that she is actually highly beautiful, only the poor woman ..
has likely been so run down through all of the vitriol spat in
her direction, her once beautiful blue eyes have been turned
dour and put off from their natural colour, and her face has
become worn down. Yet in her youth, she was as beautiful as any
queen, and everything looked prosperous in her face.
>
> Around the time that I saw that, I looked to another image, of
Liv Tyler the woman who played Arwen in the Lord of the Rings
film, and it led me to the recognition that beauty is not a
matter of a face being long or short or round or square, but
rather very high proportional beauty and uniformity is in every
face so long as the body is cultivated and purified. Both woman
have a longer face, so it cannot be the length of the face that
determines the beauty, but the health and cultivation and purity
of the body that determines that. A favourite book of fairytales
also taught me the same lesson, so then I deepened my
recognition of the truth in reality.
>
> It pains me badly (at the moment of writing) to see our
Jessica in images still smiling through the poison vitriol that
is spat her way through the ugly, dirty lies of the media. It
just makes me so upset. But if it helps others to learn the
truth, then there is at least a value in it, although I wish her
a true and full recovery.
--- End Quote ---
I looked up old photos of Sarah Jessica Parker, and she did used
to be cute, but there's just as big of a chance that her
appearance has gotten worse over time because of long faces
having less support to them, so she could have ended up aging
worse than ideally. Being the butt of infinite "horse face"
jokes for years must be a factor, too, it's not like decades of
being insulted wouldn't harm your psyche. A lot of SJP's newer
photos have her wearing a ton of makeup around her eyes, so I
can't judge any changes to her eyes too accurately. Going back
to what I said to MeltedFace, I think women can "get away" with
having lacking facial development, or rather, it requires severe
damage for women's faces to truly begin to look "off" and Sarah
in her earlier years is an example of that in action. Perhaps a
better explanation or reasoning is women's neotenous appearance
during their teens/twenties causes their lack of facial
structure to not be as apparent (especially to people who don't
obsess over maxillas 24/7), then as women get older, the divide
between hot and not becomes extreme.
Liv Tyler is often used an example of an attractive long face,
and I agree. She seems to have features that a typical long face
doesn't, such as good eye support and full cheeks. IMO, she
looks a lot like Danielle Haim from the band 'Haim'. They're a
group of three sisters, all of whom have long faces and look
kind of weird except for Danielle, though the other two seem to
photograph better compared to being in motion.
--- Quote from: Progress ---
> Very relatable. Learning to study faces can be really
disheartening. On an instinctual level there is a huge
difference in the vibe I get from mathematically proportional /
harmoniously grown face (even if the features themselves are
ugly) than when looking at a face with a disharmonious
structure.
>
> It's cruel to say, I know, but a great face gives an
appearance of a wholesome and real personality, while
disharmonious face feels off in a way that is almost physically
draining. Harmonious and proportional faces give off the
impression of a coherent and distinct personality, while
disharmonious faces are "nobodies", as if you couldn't get a
clear feel of their personalities.
>
> The reason for this, I believe, is that biologically the brain
is hard-wired to be able to automatically analyze a person's
many facial characteristics that the combination of bone & soft
tissue translates to in a proportional face. When the bone
structure is weak, recessed and not properly aligned with the
soft tissue, the brain will have a hard time analyzing the face.
The proportions and shapes of the improperly grown face are
different than what the brain has evolved to handle, giving the
brain less usable information from which to construct the mental
prototype of that person's personality, or vibe. This is why
proper facial growth almost always gives off a distinct sense of
unique personality and improper facial growth feels like a lack
of personality.
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, I fully agree with you on that. It's kind of funny and
ironic that I know how bad my own face is (and am never not
aware of it) but when seeing somebody with significant,
horrendous dystrophy, my judgement switches from less of an
innocent "noticing" of flaws to a type of contempt or shock and
awe. You may be onto something with personality correlating to
facial development - I have thought that for a while, but I like
your explanation. I've never felt like I've had a real
personality, and though the cause for that goes well beyond just
looks, I remember being 8 years old and thinking my reflection
in the mirror made me look totally lifeless. For at least 15
years before knowing about facial structure, I always thought I
was uniquely ugly ("there are ugly people in the world, but I am
a special kind of ugly") and looked like a general non-entity.
At least partially because of that, I have a disconnect between
the fantasy personality I constantly daydream of having/using
and the boring, nothing-there drivel that comes out. I've never
even been able to talk to family members without several filters
on, resulting in never acting how I want or saying what I want,
smiling is forced and unnatural, and feeling like a "nothing" as
a result. That's obviously a huge mental issue and I'm fully
aware becoming attractive wouldn't solve it, but it's
interesting how all of that is perfectly captured in my face as
well. Comparing my own face to various celebrities, they all
have a certain spark to their face that becomes immediately
apparent when looking at them. I think Justin Bieber in
particular is a good example of what you said about the brain
constructing a vibe by looking at someone's face. Regardless of
him being classified by many as somewhat of a D-bag, I find his
face very "simple" to look at, as if there's no decoding of his
features to be done and it's easy to see his personality in a
glance.
#Post#: 2019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Tyler
Date: May 2, 2017, 6:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A big part of that has to do with the health of the psyche, and
not just the bone structure.
A lot of people are beautiful, but look lifeless too, such as
many models.
And a lot of people don't have the most beautiful faces or
whatever, but they still have a life in their eyes.
So I think that putting all our eggs into the one basket is not
so good, since it's pretty easy to turn it into an obsession and
never end up satisfied. No doubt this is how some models start
with a bit of cosmetic surgery, look wonderful, but still
haven't worked on their psyche's health, so then they take it
too far and end up destroying their beauty.
Just something to consider, imo.
#Post#: 2020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: PaperBag
Date: May 2, 2017, 11:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No argument here. There are many people who aren't necessarily
attractive but still appear vibrant, just like there are models
who are attractive but resemble a statue because of their vacant
stare or cold attitude.
It'd be intriguing to know if most people in these face
communities are wanting results for the sake of health and
unlocking their true looks, or if the underlying assumption is
that being attractive would instantly cure their self loathing.
Obviously, everybody should look good, I'm not disputing that.
It is annoying when orthodontic patients or people who developed
poorly rightfully object to their situation and say they were
robbed, and it's met with "oh, you're just being vain! looks
aren't everything", "you look just fine, what are you talking
about?", or even odd defence mechanisms about attractive people
having bad personalities like sainthood is directly proportional
to having eye bags and sleep apnea, which is BS. We all deserve
to be healthy and looking good.
On the other hand, it would seem as if some people are misguided
and assume that their looks are responsible for every problem
they've ever had. This can be seen in the vitriol spewed at
attractive people for daring to say they're depressed or facing
some other issue. (though I won't act as if there aren't a ton
of people who fake and exaggerate their problems for pity or to
come off as relatable) Many news stories about someone
committing suicide is met with confusion when the victim was
beautiful, which probably reflects others' thinking patterns of
"my life would be great if I had *that*", that being looks in
this case. I'm not trying to sound "blue pilled" or give off a
"just-world" vibe because no sh*t good looking people have
better lives than unattractive people, but I think it's
mistakenly framed as the ultimate cure all.
[spoiler]But how does self-refinement, inner beauty, or working
on your psyche ever get developed? As in actually developed, not
forcing positivity or feigning non-interest in your problems.
There are thousands of quotes, self help books, suggestions of
fixing large mental problems by "going for a walk every day!"
and supposed frames of mind we're all expected to instantly tap
into ('just think positive, bro' / 'learn to love yourself', 'be
yourself', 'get over it' etc..). A lot of the solutions people
give out are platitudinous because for those who have always
been mired in self-hatred, or had anything else negative that
frequently occurs in their life, it's become solidified as fact
and seems to be impossible to wrestle out of that reality
because it simply is their reality. So is there a reason to try
and fight the thoughts or change them? It's so rare to hear of
this working. Years ago, somebody told me I could get over a
problem by looking in the mirror and saying "I love you"
repeatedly. When there's no power to it, what's the point? It's
like saying your new name is Jeff instead of John, even though
you already know yourself as John no matter how many times you
babble "Jeff" to try and find new meaning/truth in it.
After each "if I do/get/be/have/act like XYZ, and I'll feel
better" fails, spiritual teachings always sound like the answer.
With myself as another example of this, I've never heard of or
seen anybody who went down the "path" and actually succeeded.
After years of hopping from teacher to teacher, hoping that the
next one could give me the perfect instruction list on how to
fix my life, I noticed that nobody ever got it. I'm talking
about being able to get rid of negative beliefs and start living
a balanced life, nothing ethereal like talking to angels. What a
lot of the followers of spiritual teachers do is become high for
thinking they're on the right path, act holier-than-thou towards
others, and quote the teacher verbatim despite probably not
knowing what it means. Much of the "lessons" become incredibly
convoluted and unrelated to life as a human, such as "you say
you are a doer, but you are mistaken because who is watching?
see? there is no doer doing" or writing off any negative
situation as "it's all energy playing itself out". It seems like
anybody who ever figured out self-improvement has to become a
guru selling their books and hosting expensive seminars to
people who continue their never ending seeking.
A big reason why I'm mentioning all of this is that I find it
very interesting how claimingpower originated as a
spiritual/self-help/consciousness themed blog, reflecting on how
he could transcend the emptiness he was feeling (not his words,
I'm just trying to sum it up) and while he had the usual
insights and mini-breakthroughs along the way, all of that
dedication didn't really get him anywhere. He then revamped the
site into discussing orthodontic reversal, craniofacial
dystrophy, and the like. After seeing his older posts about
spiritual stuff, my interpretation was that he had hoped to
avoid his low self esteem and other bad emotions/thoughts
through some kind of egoic transformation and live in a state of
bliss, then when that didn't work, he assumed becoming
attractive would get rid of his constant mental dialogue. Even
in later articles, he would interject with various law of
attraction pointers, then in other articles say something to the
effect of "I think there's a limit to how much personal
development can be done when having dystrophy". I'm just
speculating/giving an opinion, not saying for certain this is
what his thought processes are.
This is exactly how I thought for years. "If I can just become
enlightened, I can be who I want to be, everyone will like me,
I'll never be depressed", etc.. When that didn't work and I
still felt bad, I came across a Mike Mew lecture and then found
claimingpower. Immediately upon reading his articles, I thought
"wow! If I become really good looking, I can act however I want,
people will like me and think I'm cool, I'll be happy", even
though I now know I could wake up with a perfect face and
nothing else would change aside from maybe getting some shallow
attention, which honestly would be nice, but it's not as if
people who get that are permanently satisfied.
That was very long and possibly incoherent, but I think it's
worth asking how we can be able to work on ourselves from the
inside. I agree that focusing on nothing but looks is
detrimental, but when it comes to self-love, self-acceptance, or
any of that, I've seen almost nothing but people doing various
techniques that act as a temporary fix at best.[/spoiler]
#Post#: 2021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: MeltedFace
Date: May 3, 2017, 1:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think most of us are in the "the orthodontic messes me up and
I want awesome health" category. If anyone thinks their issues
are all due to not having good facial development that's just a
level of blaming outside yourself and not being fully
emotionally mature yet.
Can it cause tons of health problems? Yes. I attest to that. But
like anything, let it forge you in the fires of your own
strength and come out of it stronger. That's the only healthy
way to deal with it... growing from it, and not just sitting
with the negative feelings without action internal or external -
just my opnion on it :)
#Post#: 2022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Diagnose my face - pics included!
DIR By: Tyler
Date: May 3, 2017, 1:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't really have the knowledge worked out entirely for myself
"PaperBag", but I do study about these things.
I agree with a lot of things you wrote. You've thought about
this a lot, yeah?
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