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#Post#: 863--------------------------------------------------
Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I consider?
DIR By: Maxzilla
Date: November 16, 2014, 3:27 pm
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I am 25 years old male and my face changed dramatically in last
two years: it became long, restless, tired looking, my-eye balls
slightly bulge out of head, I developed exaggerated nasolabial
folds and under eye circles, scleral show increased, nose may
lengthened but it definitely became more pronounced on face, one
eye-ball sunken vertically (down), head tilted forward, posture
worsened, for some reason my face appears even more pale, whole
face seem to sunk under the eye ridge...in short, just a bunch
of signs which indicate vertical growth pattern. The same thing
is happening to my sister and happened to my father, so it is
either bad genes, syndromic (was already appointed to geneticist
by maxillo facial surgeon to check out the situation) or due to
airway problems (asthma, allergies, narrow nasal airways).
IMPORTANT: No 4-teeth extraction was done ever.
clinical diagnosis I've gathered from multiple orthodontists and
maxillo facial surgeon so far: midface deficiency, face
asymmetry (mandible about 4mm shifted in left-right direction
based on quick evaluation, actual measurements yet to come),
vertical growth of face, maxillary and mandibular rotation,
mandible recession, long face, teeth overcrowding, narrow upper
palate and slight narrow down palate, malocclusion (type I on
one side, type II other), was also recommended to visit
geneticist (due to slight ear deformity, small ears, low set
ears and midface deficiency)
Here are pics of my face changing during early 20's years
(dropbox link to lateral, front and images taken from angle):
[link removed]
and here is a link to full directory, if someone can read xrays
and would like to see them:
[link removed]
To hopefully improve my face or at least to stop this
not-well-understood or better said unknown condition from
worsening, I could use invasive methods (orthognatic surgery),
but it's success based on seen results is questionable and
potentially dangerous - the method that I was officially
recommended by maxillo facial surgeon to undergo for my core
problem (mid face defficiency) is LeFortIII, so no thanks to
that. Also, I don't like the whole idea about surgery because I
see it as imposed approach and what I'd want to have is a
progressive method which slowly reshapes the form of a whole
facial bones trough time and not just moving some segments of
bones without effecting others.
In search of solution, a lot of googling and doing homework gave
me these options:
1. Orthodontics to expand very narrow upper palate and align
teeth
2. Face pulling with head gear
3. "Mike Mew routine" (teeth,lips together and tong on roof of
mouth at rest state and keep pushing tong forward and up when
possible)
4. NCR
Where things get frustrating for me is point 1 and point 2,
because there seems to be a lot of appliances available and the
opinions about appliances are very mixed, but the most
problematic thing is that I simply can not find any community
which is devoted to cranio-facial remodelling so that I'd be
able to get more and less biased opinions. When I asked orthos
about appliances, of course, the one they use is the best and
everything else is out of question, so a level of bias is
unpromising.
I talked with persons like dr Hang, dr Mitani, the guy behind
CP, the TMJ (hockey-helmet) guy, the patient zero and others,
the responses were in style
"I recommend biobloc"
"You shouldn't use biobloc, you're to old of that"
"Use Damon and face pull"
"Don't use Damon since it's too dental-oriented, instead
cranial"
"The Crane is not good"
"Use ALF + The Crane"
"Face pull for 15-30 mins only"
"Face pull as much as possible"
...
After getting all that mixed feedback, things got a bit
confusing and frustrating so at this moment I feel like I am
where I started.
So far I came up with these appliances:
-biobloc appliances used by Mike Mew, probably an expander and
maybe some "magical" accompanying appliances. Can't dig any info
about this.
- ALF - seems to be very interesting device, because it is
advertised as appliance which works on skeletal (3D) approach,
rather just dental and this is exactly what I think that I need
- FaceMax - looks like a retainer built from plastic for a use
with face pulling, but a but odd thing is that one should not
wear it more than 30mins per day
-Maxvector appliance - probably face pulling appliance + helmet
- Damon - popular teeth straightening system, but I guess that
is about it - just teeth strengthening, no expansion, no 3D
effect
-Homeoblock - an appliance which is advertised to work
skeletally (whole face, 3D), but I don't like the idea that it's
only worn at night and it has no space for tong
- The crane - face pulling device, but this one seem to be
mounted around neck rather on head
There are a lot of others too, but these seem to be most common
choice.
Please share your opinion on appliance choices, treatment plan
design, etc.
Thank you
p.s. please tolerate my English skills, it's not my native
language
#Post#: 864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: Oliver
Date: November 17, 2014, 10:26 pm
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I feel where you're coming from. Everyone says something
different and it's hard to distinguish whats right or wrong.
I'm leaning towards ALFs because I feel like they would expand
the palate more then just teeth. I think for expansion with the
biobloc is the best, since it sits up in the palate and the
expansion force is near the suture. If you live beside someone
who uses biobloc then I'd go do that. If not then I think ALFs +
braces might be your next best bet. My gut feeling tells me that
damons might move teeth more than just actual suture expansion.
As for pulling the maxilla forward, I'd love to believe in FP (
I've never tried it ) but logically it seems that head-gear like
the crane could work better. We all know that bones move over
time and i'm pretty sure 30 min of FP isn't enough. Then again,
I've never tried either so at this point I'm just guessing.
This is still a new thing and there aren't any established
methods yet. I say go with your best feelings!
#Post#: 865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: Maxzilla
Date: November 21, 2014, 10:22 am
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--- Quote ---
> I'm leaning towards ALFs because I feel like they would expand
the palate more then just teeth.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm also leaning towards ALF not only because of advertised
palatal expansion, but it's effect on whole facial bones,
especially midface. However, I can not get any feedback from
engineer who developed it and orthodontists who use it in
practise.
--- Quote ---
> I think for expansion with the biobloc is the best, since it
sits up in the palate and the expansion force is near the
suture. If you live beside someone who uses biobloc then I'd go
do that. If not then I think ALFs + braces might be your next
best bet.
--- End Quote ---
I'll have to go abroad in any case, so from this standpoint it
doesn't matter.
--- Quote ---
> My gut feeling tells me that damons might move teeth more than
just actual suture expansion.
--- End Quote ---
This is pretty common opinion that I'm getting about damons.
Even my ortho said that they're too hyped, dental oriented and
they don't work on palate that good. It's more about quick teeth
straightening (tipping).
--- Quote ---
> As for pulling the maxilla forward, I'd love to believe in FP
( I've never tried it ) but logically it seems that head-gear
like the crane could work better. We all know that bones move
over time and i'm pretty sure 30 min of FP isn't enough. Then
again, I've never tried either so at this point I'm just
guessing.
--- End Quote ---
Same thoughts here, but again totally based on theory.
Thank you for reply
#Post#: 872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: Kratos
Date: December 18, 2014, 2:05 am
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so what changes did you find on your face and is it worth it ?
because I'm planning to have this NCR treatment next year only
if it works, I would have start my treatment from now on but due
to money problem I'll have to manage it till next year for my 6
weeks and 40 sessions treatment, it is expensive too. I've had 1
NCR treatment just to see what will be the difference on my face
but I didn't find any change in 1 time. doctor says that he'll
guarantee that my face will become symmetrical and headache free
after completing whole treatment. but I'm not sure if it will
work.While in treatment he just had some massage on my nose,
head, temples and neck. he said I won't need for nasal balloon
therapy. but still I wanna make sure that IS NCR TREATMENT WORTH
IT ? OR AM I WASTING MY MONEY AND TIME BEHIND THIS ?
I'm from India and the doctor or should I say NCR expert who's
treating me is only one expert in Asia and he live in another
state and comes once in a year in my state for the treatment and
he said if I want NCR treatment I'll specially have to go in his
clinic where is out of state and the charges will be high
because I'll have to live in a hotel for 6 weeks and + treatment
charges which is very much expensive as a student for me and my
father is retired so I don't wanna put more stress on him. so
please help me with my question thanks in advance
#Post#: 875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: MessiahMews
Date: December 19, 2014, 11:00 am
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--- Quote from: Kratos link ---
>
> so what changes did you find on your face and is it worth it ?
because I'm planning to have this NCR treatment next year only
if it works, I would have start my treatment from now on but due
to money problem I'll have to manage it till next year for my 6
weeks and 40 sessions treatment, it is expensive too. I've had 1
NCR treatment just to see what will be the difference on my face
but I didn't find any change in 1 time. doctor says that he'll
guarantee that my face will become symmetrical and headache free
after completing whole treatment. but I'm not sure if it will
work.While in treatment he just had some massage on my nose,
head, temples and neck. he said I won't need for nasal balloon
therapy. but still I wanna make sure that IS NCR TREATMENT WORTH
IT ? OR AM I WASTING MY MONEY AND TIME BEHIND THIS ?
> I'm from India and the doctor or should I say NCR expert who's
treating me is only one expert in Asia and he live in another
state and comes once in a year in my state for the treatment and
he said if I want NCR treatment I'll specially have to go in his
clinic where is out of state and the charges will be high
because I'll have to live in a hotel for 6 weeks and + treatment
charges which is very much expensive as a student for me and my
father is retired so I don't wanna put more stress on him. so
please help me with my question thanks in advance
>
--- End Quote ---
If that doctor didn't use the balloons on you at all, then you
didn't get the NCR or EndoNasal Cranial.
The endo nasl balloons have to be done in order to get the
results you want. The sphenoid bone has to be moved to its
optimal position and is only accessed via the balloons.
Massaging it isn't going to make the changes. Gotta have the
balloons used.
#Post#: 877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: Kratos
Date: December 20, 2014, 1:43 am
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I can't send personal message to ben, I think he's having some
privacy settings to his account !!
#Post#: 878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: MessiahMews
Date: December 20, 2014, 10:04 am
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--- Quote from: Kratos link ---
>
> I can't send personal message to ben, I think he's having some
privacy settings to his account !!
>
--- End Quote ---
Go to his profile and look again. His email is on there.
#Post#: 892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Which mouth appliance and face pulling gear should I
consider?
DIR By: Knoppe
Date: February 5, 2015, 9:36 am
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You just answered your own questions.
Many appliances do the same thing. Bracers are a faster way of
getting things done. The ALF is a slower process. I notice some
tipping from the bracers at the same time as I now have
sufficient width for correct tongue posture.
Rule of thumb for me is: will this appliance enable the tongue
to function properly? If yes then why not. Homeoblock and DNA
don't. Big nono for me.
Face pulling is easier. Gentle forces and your body tells you
when it's had enough. People tend to over pull in terms of force
used. BE GENTLE.
The appliances are supposed to help you regain function so that
the tongue can function properly.
There is also the aspect of bite height. Check the starecta.com
webpage out. The free book is very educational.
The changes in your apperance is symptomatic of a "melting face"
as Dr.Mew puts it. It was what finally made me take action.
Ponder for a wile but you need to take action. I'd like to
stress the importance of finding the right practitioner over
specific treatment modalities. The reason for this is that
someone who uses ALF'S to straighten your teeth still won't help
you but someone who used homemade bulkier appliances but had the
right mindset will be more benificial for you.
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