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#Post#: 2369--------------------------------------------------
Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: March 29, 2014, 7:15 pm
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Lately there has been a discussion regarding the planning of
nether ice roads. While I'd like us to have transportation
infrastructure near the roof of the nether, so we avoid
interfering with the empty space and terrain down there at the
surface, Yqt pointed out that we already have a lot of portals
connected down there and it's take a lot of effort to move them
up.
We already have a few portals (Kaktolake, Pine Hill and the
northern mesa portal) near the top with the horse roads surface
at y = 105), but we have a lot more portals down at y = 65.
I think the roof is the ideal place to make such infrastructure
so I think it's the best option to move the portals up in the
long term, and get it done as soon as possible before we make
even more portals and roads at ground level.
Another question is whether we want portals both near the roof
and at around surface level, because near the roof there will be
horse roads (and probably rails in the future, when they can go
faster), while at the surface we have the ice roads atm. Or if
we'd like all our portals around the same y level.
Vote in the poll.
#Post#: 2371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: b-ong Date: March 29, 2014, 9:44 pm
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wait i voted wrongly i vote for second not first
also i will move my portal
#Post#: 2373--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: March 29, 2014, 9:47 pm
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I cleared the votes, revoted and enabled vote changes.
#Post#: 2380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Mudkipz Date: March 29, 2014, 10:37 pm
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We will estimate it takes 8 seconds to 1 meter of 2m-wide ice
road at the current level, and 6 seconds at the ceiling.
Ice mining: 4s
Tunneling cost: 2s
Walling cost: 4s (at current y)
To move a portal takes 60 seconds. 15 to remove the obsidian, 10
to record the coordinates, and 15 to move and rebuild and
relight. Also add 20 seconds to dig out the surrounding area and
connect it to other portals and the roads
These numbers are on the high side, but then again i've never
completed any of my projects in calculated time due to getting
materials, food, and a bunch of other complications. I will
assume these are correct for now.
I will estimate that there are 600 m of ice roads. 200m on the
desertopia side, 200 on aeridani's side, and 200 near yqt. I
will also guess that there are around 30 portals (around 10 in
the desertopia region and probably similar amounts elsewhere).
Therefore, to move everything up currently will require
6*600+30*60 = 5400 seconds. This seems like somewhat of an
underestimate but i'll go by it for now.
Smooth tunnel junctions don't make travel faster. The vast
majority of the time, I am trying to get to spawntown, not
aeridani. A smooth junction would most likely result in
overshooting, which would waste as much time as having to
slowdown and speed up. And as high speed rail comes closer to
reality, it is likely that there will be no difference between a
perfectly flat junction and one involving one or two block
gradients (because of ejector rails). It is probably the case
that all tunnels at the same y level would not save any time nor
waste any.
New ice tunnels will save 2 seconds per meter. Assuming two new
players join each year and each build 60 meters of ice tunnels
(480m overworld), and an additional 180m of ice tunnels is
extended(1440m overworld), 300m of ice road is added onto the
network each year, saving 600 seconds. At this rate, the costs
of moving everything up will be recovered in 9 years.
It's not as simple though. I have a furnace center at y = 30 or
so, a wither skelaton farm at the same level, and darvince still
uses the blaze farm at y = 60. I make an average of 30 trips to
the furnace a year and 50 to the wither skelaton a year. I
assume other people take lava from the nether too, or travel
down as it is hard to glowstone from the ceiling. If there are
100 trips to y = 60 each year, each taking 60 seconds from the
ceiling (and 30 from the current level), then we are set back
3000 seconds per year, which means we have negative benefit.
If we allocate 3600 seconds to build 10 portal elevators to the
most commonly descended places, then our total time cost is 9000
seconds which will take 15 years to recover.
If we move downwards, and assume there is no cost for making any
trips up or down since we are not as far, then the original
estimate of 9 years still stands.
I consider both 9 and 15 years somewhat optimistic for how long
people will be playing on minecraft. The doomsday argument
suggests something like 4 years. Therefore, I don't think it is
worth the time.
I also consider 5400 seconds an underestimate, although some may
consider it an overestimate. If they do, then I wouldn't mind
them moving my portals and roads up there along with everyone
else's -- it'd only take about half an hour of two people's
time. I don't mean this in a condescending manner, but it's
probably be more efficient than six people running around trying
to connect everything.
While the mode of transport may be different (ice road, high
speed rail, enderpearl), once the tunnel is built, changing the
insides doesn't take different amounts of effort depending on
where you are. I will install high-speed rail in my ice tunnels
and fiah's when it comes out, so that is not a factor in my
decision.
I've never been obstructed, bothered, or blocked by a ice road
or similar tunnel before, and i like the aesthetic appearance of
human dominance over the terrain, so that is also not a factor
in my decision
#Post#: 2381--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: March 30, 2014, 8:05 am
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I've spent days building a 6 km long road pretty much nobody is
going to use which might pay off in a millennium, I've spent
hours hollowing out Spawntown Public Storage and 50% of it is
still empty, I don't actually care at all if it takes 3 hours to
move some portals and infrastructure, I'd have no problem moving
the portals people want moved to the ceiling and moving the
tunnels. If all we cared about was using as little time as
possible the most efficient way is to stop playing. Having
things that look nice is also important to me, and the terrain
in the nether at the surface isn't flat at all. Cobble roads
with slabs and stairs following it could look nice, but I don't
agree that flat ice tunnels that completely ignore the terrain
do, that's not terrain dominance to me, so I don't think the
surface is a good place for them. Yqt said he planned to
decorate his ice tunnels. If you have to decorate ice tunnels to
make them look nicer, that brings up the time costs too, but I
don't give much for all those estimates and assumptions in the
first place. There's simply no way to predict when everyone
abandon Blacraft, how many players are going to join, etc.
#Post#: 2384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Mudkipz Date: March 30, 2014, 8:25 am
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i don't have the same pressing urge to standardize everything or
lower the time cost for new players in the nether so i'm not
inclined to spend time moving everything.
#Post#: 2386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: March 30, 2014, 8:48 am
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Fair enough. We've discussed this a lot so I suggest people just
vote, and then we respect what gets the most votes.
#Post#: 2414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: April 3, 2014, 6:24 pm
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I'll run this poll in the voting center for a week from (if I
remember it) tomorrow, so remember to revote, I'll transfer
Blotz' move vote and Kip's and smjjames' make hub votes.
#Post#: 2418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: April 4, 2014, 1:26 pm
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The poll has been moved to Blacraft Voting Center and I've
transfered my, Blotz', Kipz' and smjjames' votes. Idk who the
last one who voted for option 1 is, but make sure to vote in the
voting center. I'll close the poll in this topic.
The poll in the voting center will close on April 11.
#Post#: 2443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Nether Ice Roads
By: Bla Date: April 10, 2014, 7:59 pm
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So the poll ended and we voted for moving the ice roads.
I'm suggesting to move them to the top near the horse roads,
since the horse roads are at 105 and the tunnels are 3m tall,
I'd suggest 110. The altitude below the horse tunnels seem to
have a rapid drop towards more openness, so I think building
them just below the horse roads would leave them too exposed.
Another option is near the absolute bottom of the nether, below
around y = 18.
Consider this graph:
HTML http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/minecraft.gamepedia.com/a/a7/Block_layers_nether_1.5.svg?version=a5a8bc632cc420aef7f83ca35d1571ab
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