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#Post#: 144--------------------------------------------------
Avoiding War-Draft
By: Kass Williams Date: April 10, 2013, 7:15 pm
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Hey y'all i'm back! ;D
I wanted to bring up a quick subject from the Avoiding War
discussion from the CCC last week.
It's from paragraph 2310: "Public authorities, in this case,
have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations
necessary for national defense."
So, that being said, does the government have a right to draft
soldiers (i.e. WWI + WWII et all) for a war overseas, assuming
the war is a just one? What about if it is not?
And do the "obligations necessary for national defense" apply to
all citizens, male and female, and old and young? This paragraph
seems very vague to me.
???
:-*
#Post#: 145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Aidan Date: April 13, 2013, 11:53 am
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[quote author=Kass Williams link=topic=34.msg144#msg144
date=1365639317]
Hey y'all i'm back! ;D
I wanted to bring up a quick subject from the Avoiding War
discussion from the CCC last week.
It's from paragraph 2310: "Public authorities, in this case,
have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations
necessary for national defense."
So, that being said, does the government have a right to draft
soldiers (i.e. WWI + WWII et all) for a war overseas, assuming
the war is a just one? What about if it is not?
And do the "obligations necessary for national defense" apply to
all citizens, male and female, and old and young? This paragraph
seems very vague to me.
???
:-*
[/quote]
What does the "...in this case," refer to?
#Post#: 146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Kass Williams Date: April 15, 2013, 4:51 pm
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Basically the just-war scenario. The bottom of 2309 (clauses for
a just war) finishes: "The evaluation of these conditions for
moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who
have responsibility for the common good." Then it hits you with
the 'draft' paragraph.
But 2309 brings up another point that I hadn't realized: we are
obliged to listen to the "prudential judgment" of those in
authority working for the common good. If those in authority are
not "prudential" and are not working for "the common good"
(cough like right now Obama cough) could we in good conscience
refuse to obey impositions of 'necessary obligations'?
Thoughts? Comments?
#Post#: 147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Aidan Date: April 15, 2013, 8:52 pm
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In the event that a draft is called for some reason, I'm sure we
will receive instruction from the bishops as to whether or not
the war is licit.
If the bishops decide it's an immoral war, then in order to be
exempt I believe we are allowed to claim "Conscientious
Objector" status.
Otherwise, I suppose there is no reason why you couldn't accept
being drafted to fight in a just war.
In our country, the draft is only for men. I think the
Catechism leaves it up to the state to decide who the draft
applies to, and who is required to observe the: "...obligations
necessary for national defense."
However, considering the [s]people[/s] twits in the current
[s]administration[/s] zoo, I'm sure they could "justify" any
possible war they get into. As I said, I think we would need to
see what the bishops say.
I hope this helps in some way. :)
#Post#: 148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Kass Williams Date: April 18, 2013, 3:33 pm
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Well, technically, the Draft was discontinued in 1973, so no one
can constitutionally be drafted today (so far).
And because women are now allowed in combat zones, I hesitate to
say that only men would be drafted if the law was repealed for
some reason.
I was speaking in hypotheticals.
But I do agree that it seems the Catechism leaves the exact
obligations up to the state.
However, I don't think it is a case of "if the bishops decide"
if it's a just war or not. If the Catechism states under no
uncertain terms the doctrine of the just war, we don't need to
be told if it is one or not if we know the facts; we can decide
for ourselves.
I don't know if that's wrong or anything; that's just how I see
it. :)
#Post#: 149--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Aidan Date: April 18, 2013, 4:14 pm
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The problem with that is that every Catholic will have a
different opinion, everyone will interpret the situation
differently. Like the bible! You see where that got us... >:(
That's why I think the laity may require some guidance from the
bishops.
#Post#: 150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Kass Williams Date: April 18, 2013, 8:40 pm
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The Bible is a whole 'nother story.
CCC gives us four clear guidelines for a just war. They either
apply or do not apply.
We can sit back and ask whether any war (Rev. War, Civil War,
WWI, WWII, etc) was just, and by the guidelines decide 'yes' or
'no'. We do not need to go to a bishop today and ask "Was the
Revolutionary War a just war?" We have reviewed the incidents
leading up to war and have reached a conclusion based on what
the Church teaches. It is not a matter of 'opinion'.
If, as you say, we Catholics need to be told if it is or not,
this would be a matter for the Pope. Bishops are fallible.
(that's why the Bible can only be interpreted clearly and
correctly by the infallibility of the Pope).
Don't think that I diss the Bishops' authority or
anything...it's not like that. I just think that when we are
given clear standards and are well-informed of the situation, we
do not need a bishopric having the ultimate say. With all due
respect. ::)
#Post#: 151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Aidan Date: April 18, 2013, 9:05 pm
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You're right, the French and German bishops supported their
respective states during WWI, and I don't think they could both
be right! XD
I see what you're saying, and I do think that given all the
information, we could come to a conclusion on our own. I just
feel like we should see what our hierarchy says before we lock
in our decision.
#Post#: 152--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Kass Williams Date: April 21, 2013, 9:07 pm
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Yes, I would agree. We should of course see what the Church says
on the object, seeing as how we're following the CCC in the
first place, but through the Pope, not just individual bishops.
;)
Sorry if I've been a bit brusque in this conversation!
P.S. Nice seeing you at the French Food Festival! Did you have a
good time?
#Post#: 153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Avoiding War-Draft
By: Aidan Date: April 21, 2013, 9:13 pm
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Well obviously all the American bishops would release a joint
statement on the matter.
And a war that warrants a draft these days would, in all
likelihood, draw commentary from pope Francis.
Yeah you were just a bit rough, but that's alright.
The F.F.F. was really fun, I think I saw you there. The food
was exceptional! ;D
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