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#Post#: 3255--------------------------------------------------
Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: macliam
Date: January 29, 2022, 8:20 am
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I've been sitting on this topic for quite a while, annoyed by
the chorus of "There are more important things..." and "It's
time to move on..." whenever something controversial comes
along.
Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of "Bloody Sunday", the
infamous day when 26 innocent people were shot by soldiers of
1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment; 13 died immediately and
another died later from injuries received. There will be calls
to "move on", yet we hear that this year, flags of the parachute
regiment have been flown in the city, so clearly there are those
who have no wish to "move on". But there is more to this than
the bare facts of the massacre itself or that there has been
little justice shown to those who died - things which make the
event more significant, but which are lost when there is no
context given. The same Battalion, often excused for being
"inexperienced" or "panicked" was implicated in another massacre
in Ballymurphy, Belfast, several months prior - where at least 9
civilians, including a priest, were killed. Even the name
"Bloody sunday" is a reuse of a term from the Anglo-Irish war in
1920, when the IRA killed 15 men, mostly British Intelligence
officers - and the later reprisal where British forces entered
Croke Park in Dublin, where a gaelic football match was
underway, and opened fire on the crowd, killing or fatally
wounding 14 civilians and wounding at least sixty others,
including 2 children and a woman. The problem is, that in
"moving on", these undercurrents are ignored.....
During the week, I also read a review of Pedro Almodóvar's
latest film, "Madres Paralelas" (parallel mothers) which
mentioned tensions in Spain around the treatment of the victims
of their Civil War and is the backstory in the film. It reminded
me of driving up into the hills behind Malaga and finding a
monument from the Falangist days, which commemorated those
"ASESINADOS POR LAS HORDAS ROJAS" ("Killed by the red Hordes")
and arriving in Ceuta in 1981 to find a monument to Franco and
his Spanish Legion, complete with the falange symbol
unchanged..... apart from now having a crown added to it because
of the "new" monarchy. In the article it gives a very, very bare
fact - of an estimated 114,000 dumped in mass graves by Franco's
forces, only 19,000 have been excavated, identified and reburied
in the past 40 years. This is because it was time to "move on"
because there were "more important things" for Spain to do after
Franco died in 1975. So the scars remain.
I can try to explain to you what makes me feel as I do about the
past, but I would fail - because I could never provide you with
the million and one nuances that make me see things the way I
do. I come from a city still famous as the "City of the Broken
Treaty" from 1691; A city that gave birth to "The Limerick
Soviet" in 1919; A city that had to be invaded from the sea by
its own Army in 1920..... a city that was still divided by its
Civil War past when I was a kid. - the City defamed by Angela's
Ashes. Then I have my memories of coming to the UK early in the
"Troubles", my past making me "different" from those I grew up
with. History is complicated.... it's not just facts, it makes
us what we are.
So when I hear "It's time to move on..." or "There are more
important things...", it's like someone is trying to close the
door on my own past.
#Post#: 3259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: Lion in Winter
Date: January 29, 2022, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: macliam link ---
>
> I've been sitting on this topic for quite a while, annoyed by
the chorus of "There are more important things..." and "It's
time to move on..." whenever something controversial comes
along.
>
> Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of "Bloody Sunday", the
infamous day when 26 innocent people were shot by soldiers of
1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment; 13 died immediately and
another died later from injuries received. There will be calls
to "move on", yet we hear that this year, flags of the parachute
regiment have been flown in the city, so clearly there are those
who have no wish to "move on". But there is more to this than
the bare facts of the massacre itself or that there has been
little justice shown to those who died - things which make the
event more significant, but which are lost when there is no
context given. The same Battalion, often excused for being
"inexperienced" or "panicked" was implicated in another massacre
in Ballymurphy, Belfast, several months prior - where at least 9
civilians, including a priest, were killed. Even the name
"Bloody sunday" is a reuse of a term from the Anglo-Irish war in
1920, when the IRA killed 15 men, mostly British Intelligence
officers - and the later reprisal where British forces entered
Croke Park in Dublin, where a gaelic football match was
underway, and opened fire on the crowd, killing or fatally
wounding 14 civilians and wounding at least sixty others,
including 2 children and a woman. The problem is, that in
"moving on", these undercurrents are ignored.....
>
> During the week, I also read a review of Pedro Almodóvar's
latest film, "Madres Paralelas" (parallel mothers) which
mentioned tensions in Spain around the treatment of the victims
of their Civil War and is the backstory in the film. It reminded
me of driving up into the hills behind Malaga and finding a
monument from the Falangist days, which commemorated those
"ASESINADOS POR LAS HORDAS ROJAS" ("Killed by the red Hordes")
and arriving in Ceuta in 1981 to find a monument to Franco and
his Spanish Legion, complete with the falange symbol
unchanged..... apart from now having a crown added to it because
of the "new" monarchy. In the article it gives a very, very bare
fact - of an estimated 114,000 dumped in mass graves by Franco's
forces, only 19,000 have been excavated, identified and reburied
in the past 40 years. This is because it was time to "move on"
because there were "more important things" for Spain to do after
Franco died in 1975. So the scars remain.
>
> I can try to explain to you what makes me feel as I do about
the past, but I would fail - because I could never provide you
with the million and one nuances that make me see things the way
I do. I come from a city still famous as the "City of the Broken
Treaty" from 1691; A city that gave birth to "The Limerick
Soviet" in 1919; A city that had to be invaded from the sea by
its own Army in 1920..... a city that was still divided by its
Civil War past when I was a kid. - the City defamed by Angela's
Ashes. Then I have my memories of coming to the UK early in the
"Troubles", my past making me "different" from those I grew up
with. History is complicated.... it's not just facts, it makes
us what we are.
>
> So when I hear "It's time to move on..." or "There are more
important things...", it's like someone is trying to close the
door on my own past.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Moving on" is a false idea for all the reasons you state. The
past has made us, we cannot extricate it from our own selves. We
carry the past forward and we change as we go but the stuff of
the past is never gone from us. It becomes us. "Moving on" is
impossible.
#Post#: 3272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: SultanOfSwing
Date: January 29, 2022, 9:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Lion in Winter link ---
>
>
>
> "Moving on" is a false idea for all the reasons you state. The
past has made us, we cannot extricate it from our own selves. We
carry the past forward and we change as we go but the stuff of
the past is never gone from us. It becomes us. "Moving on" is
impossible.
>
--- End Quote ---
You don't 'move on' from these events, you learn from them.
Unless you're the British armed forces, then you just continue
supporting loyalist violence for the 22 years following the
event, and help the totally impartial peelers do absolutely
bugger all about it.
#Post#: 3278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: sausageMash
Date: January 29, 2022, 10:18 am
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We can't move on, shouldn't move on, until those events are
accepted, internalized, and seen for what they are. Forgetting
about incidents of the past, is forgiveness and acquiescence to
similar behavior in the future. I have no idea why it is
considered patriotic to never criticize your own country. And
"let's move on" is acknowledging there were wrongs, and also
saying that you just don't really care.
#Post#: 3285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: DaveLovesDee
Date: January 29, 2022, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
'Moving on' only helps those who hold the power...
Did moving on help any other oppressed people such as the Jews
after WW2, native Americans and blacks in the US for much of
American history,and others. Would anyone tell the Americans to
'move on' from 9/11?
Sorry, Mac, I've digressed. I agree with you 100%.
#Post#: 3338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: macliam
Date: January 29, 2022, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SultanOfSwing link ---
>
> You don't 'move on' from these events, you learn from them.
Unless you're the British armed forces, then you just continue
supporting loyalist violence for the 22 years following the
event, and help the totally impartial peelers do absolutely
bugger all about it.
>
--- End Quote ---
You can say that, I couldn't possibly. (...and I really mean
that, almost
HTML https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji52.png)
But WTF with the Para flags? It's just nasty, like daubing a
swastika on the gates of Aushwitz...
--- Quote from: DaveLovesDee link ---
> Sorry, Mac, I've digressed. I agree with you 100%.
--- End Quote ---
No digression I can see, we all have our histories.
#Post#: 3339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ignoring the past.....
DIR By: SultanOfSwing
Date: January 29, 2022, 1:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: macliam link ---
>
> You can say that, I couldn't possibly. (...and I really mean
that, almost
HTML https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji52.png)
>
> But WTF with the Para flags? It's just nasty, like daubing a
swastika on the gates of Aushwitz...
>
--- End Quote ---
Well you answered your own question at the end there. The Derry
huns are a special breed of scunthorpe, so they do it to
provoke.
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