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#Post#: 4878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: caretaker Date: March 18, 2022, 5:07 pm
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When does Time put out it's Person of the Year issue? I'd put
good money on Volodomir here, even give odds.
#Post#: 4879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: jsmth321 Date: March 18, 2022, 8:11 pm
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[quote author=caretaker link=topic=155.msg4878#msg4878
date=1647641233]
When does Time put out it's Person of the Year issue? I'd put
good money on Volodomir here, even give odds.
[/quote]
December I think they announce person of the year.
Putin was person of the year in 2007, and people can be person
of the year multiple times, example Stalin was person of the
year in 1939 and 1942, Hitler only made it 1 time in 1939, FDR 3
times in 1932, 1934, 1941.
Prior to 1999 it was Man or Woman of the year, but Time changed
it to person of the year in 1999.
He may very well make the list this year for his actions, not
sure what he did in 2007.
#Post#: 4883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: caretaker Date: March 19, 2022, 11:45 am
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Russia is bringing out the big guns, hitting a strategic target
with hypersonic missiles. 7000mph, hard to shoot down and hard
to shoot down the MIG-31's that launch it. Russia says the
theatre bombed in Mariupol wasn't full of civilians, and
Zelensky says 130 were taken out alive but the Russians won't
stop shooting long enough to get at possibly hundreds more
buried in the rubble. How long does it take to get war crimes
verified and international warrants issued? Anything that might
drive home the notion to ordinary Russians that they are now a
pariah state because of their leaders' actions would be helpful.
Not a member of the ICC?, no problem, do it in Nuremburg.
Russia sent in the cannon fodder and they did what they could to
try to demoralize the people, and now the massive air and naval
assets in Crimea can strike whatever they want. Without a no
fly zone or massive injections of weapons and fighters those
people are hung out to dry. Even the cat people are against
Russia's war on Ukraine:
HTML https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/03/russian-cats-banned-from-international-shows-over-russias-actions-in-ukraine-a76739
#Post#: 4884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: Expatrick Date: March 19, 2022, 12:21 pm
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[quote author=caretaker link=topic=155.msg4883#msg4883
date=1647708354]
Russia is bringing out the big guns, hitting a strategic target
with hypersonic missiles. 7000mph, hard to shoot down and hard
to shoot down the MIG-31's that launch it. Russia says the
theatre bombed in Mariupol wasn't full of civilians, and
Zelensky says 130 were taken out alive but the Russians won't
stop shooting long enough to get at possibly hundreds more
buried in the rubble. How long does it take to get war crimes
verified and international warrants issued? Anything that might
drive home the notion to ordinary Russians that they are now a
pariah state because of their leaders' actions would be helpful.
Not a member of the ICC?, no problem, do it in Nuremburg.
Russia sent in the cannon fodder and they did what they could to
try to demoralize the people, and now the massive air and naval
assets in Crimea can strike whatever they want. Without a no
fly zone or massive injections of weapons and fighters those
people are hung out to dry. Even the cat people are against
Russia's war on Ukraine:
HTML https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/03/russian-cats-banned-from-international-shows-over-russias-actions-in-ukraine-a76739
[/quote]
Aside of the minor detail that a no fly zone will cause a pan
European war, using tactical nukes (the backstop of NATO's
defence strategy for decades) it will be of little benefit to
Ukraine, whose biggest threat is ground based artillery and
missiles, plus the fact that the Bear bombers can launch stand
off cruise missiles from within Russian airspace - or are you
advocating a no fly zone there too?
#Post#: 4885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: caretaker Date: March 19, 2022, 1:22 pm
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[quote author=Expatrick link=topic=155.msg4884#msg4884
date=1647710485]
Would you stay in Hungary if it were ceded to Russia as a trade
for Ukraine? It isn't as big but it's in better condition.
Aside of the minor detail that a no fly zone will cause a pan
European war, using tactical nukes (the backstop of NATO's
defence strategy for decades) it will be of little benefit to
Ukraine, whose biggest threat is ground based artillery and
missiles, plus the fact that the Bear bombers can launch stand
off cruise missiles from within Russian airspace - or are you
advocating a no fly zone there too?
[/quote]
Russians could still fly in their own airspace, the no fly zone
would be over Ukraine airspace. Cruise missiles fly, so not
allowed. Tactical nukes would be very useful in a pan-European
war; I'd put one in Sevastopol harbour and one on the Kerch
Bridge for starters. The Bear H bombers became a revolver full
of cruise missiles a long long time ago; my cousin performed the
first aerial intercept of one with a CF-18 fighter along with
his wingman future astronaut Chris Hadfield. He flew right
under the nose wheel and took a picture of the serial number.
Is de-nazifying Russia worth chancing a pan-European war or is
appeasement the right course of action? It isn't up to us, is
it? The Ukrainians have chosen to fight for their country, and
most of us support their right to self determination. I'm
already having a bad day, so start the frigging war already and
make the Russians pay through the nose. Screw the next
generation; too many kids have been rude to me.
#Post#: 4886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: Expatrick Date: March 19, 2022, 1:34 pm
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[quote author=caretaker link=topic=155.msg4885#msg4885
date=1647714144]
Is de-nazifying Russia worth chancing a pan-European war...
[/quote]
Obviously you live in North America.
Now if you had said "Is de-nazifying Russia worth chancing a
world war..." I might be more sympathetic.
#Post#: 4888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: caretaker Date: March 19, 2022, 3:46 pm
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[quote author=Expatrick link=topic=155.msg4886#msg4886
date=1647714890]
Obviously you live in North America.
Now if you had said "Is de-nazifying Russia worth chancing a
world war..." I might be more sympathetic.
[/quote]
That could happen too, all options are possible. Ask the
neighbours who were around in 1956 what they think. I'm in the
Hungarian Club right now and the old folks have a fairly united
stance on the issue.
[attachimg=1]
#Post#: 4893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: Expatrick Date: March 20, 2022, 6:03 am
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[quote author=caretaker link=topic=155.msg4888#msg4888
date=1647722798]
That could happen too, all options are possible. Ask the
neighbours who were around in 1956 what they think. I'm in the
Hungarian Club right now and the old folks have a fairly united
stance on the issue.
[attachimg=1]
[/quote]
Many polls have been carried out & I can assure you that
Hungarians in Hungary also have a united stance - a pan European
(or world war) must be avoided, at all costs.
Of course north American policy is defined solely by the
criteria "Can our enemy hit the American mainland". If it can't
then they go in all guns blazing, if it can, they sit tight.
Hence the impasse with North Korea, for example.
#Post#: 4894--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: caretaker Date: March 20, 2022, 7:22 am
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They can hit the North American mainland any time they want, in
less time than it takes to cook breakfast. That has been a fact
for most of my life. Submarines carrying missiles with nuclear
warheads are positioned (on both sides) to deliver the first
strikes, and the deterrent is Mutually Assured Destruction.
#Post#: 4896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ukraine
By: macliam Date: March 20, 2022, 9:10 am
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I'm finding it hard to see at what point the politicians will
think we should risk nuclear war...... so many throwawy comment
s about "one Russian foot into a NATO country"..... so what
would happen if a Russian missile lands in Hungary "by
accident"....... what's the response?
It seems we're happy to pat Ukraine (or Moldova, or Finland) on
the back and supply them with arms..... but not to risk
ourselves for them. Why would this change for Hungary? I
wonder.....
Threats are only concrete when they're challenged..... until
now, NATO is a pat-on-the-back club.
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