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#Post#: 4764--------------------------------------------------
Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Heathurr
Date: May 29, 2013, 5:02 pm
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I'm only posting this here because I talked with Alex about it
and he encouraged me to post on the forums. Let me just start by
saying that I'm not an economist but I have studied economics
relevant to game design so I feel pretty comfortable with this
subject. I'm also at work and preoccupied and operating on like
3 hours sleep since Monday so if I seem rambly or incoherant
then I'm sorry.
I just want to bring up a couple things about the game economy,
along with some suggestions.
First of all, let me just say that the decision to get rid of
jobs is unequivocally a good one. Having some kind of income
(some generation of money inside the economy) is absolutely
necessary, but that was not necessarily a good way to do it
because of the rate that earnings escalated.
I think that a central shop is the best way to keep the economy
stimulated. A place where players can sell their unwanted
commodities (cobble, dirt, wood, sugarcane, wheat, gravel, etc)
and get money to buy things they DO want. Two reasons.
First, it's easy for you to control how much money goes into the
economy this way, and it may even be easier for you to keep
track of it. This is important for reasons we'll discuss a bit
later.
And secondly, because most players want to get rid of that shit
at some point. It clogs up our chests, our inventories, etc, and
eventually we're throwing whole stacks of dirt into the
incinerator. Most games allow you to vendor most anything. If a
game has 'worthless' items, then a game has superficial items.
If the items aren't worth the player's effort in any context,
then why do they exist in the first place?
So - We need to be able to sell things to the 'server' (so to
speak) for income, or else people are just going to hold on to
their money and it'll circulate lazily and eventually stagnate,
which is precisely what's happening with the economy right now.
In either case (whether jobs or vendoring stuff) if you just
keep pumping fresh-printed money into an economy it'll inflate
like wow, so it becomes necessary for the game to ALSO remove
money from the game. This is the entire reason why most modern
MMOs have repair mechanics that only NPCs can perform and
exhorbitant costs for things like NPC only crafting mats or
mounts. You have to pull money out of the economy at nearly the
rate that the game world creates it, or else it'll inflate. So
that means that you guys have to do a bit of math - you need to
figure out how much money the game is creating on average, and
you need to start charging for various services. What might you
charge for? Protections and the like - things players can't do.
One thing that I would love to see is property moves. Like
moving somebody's build from one place to another. Charge by the
brick. You might even consider adopting plugins that allow you
to provide services that aren't currently possible. And you need
to not be afraid to charge stiff prices for these things. It's
up to you to figure out what that amount is.
Now as for the big question in everyone's mind (and there's a
reason I saved this for last), "Should we do a money wipe?"
Unfortunately, (and people are going to hate me for this) the
answer is 'probably.' It sounds like a lot of the money that's
in the economy is the result of exploitation. And even if that's
NOT the case (as I'm sure some of you will argue), the jobs mod
was just plain ill-conceived. It's important that we do this to
repair the damage that was done by all of this inflation, and
unfortunately the cleanest way to do this is to delete money.
Probably all balances exceeding $500,000, but again - it's up to
you to determine what's fair.
#Post#: 4765--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Nick
Date: May 29, 2013, 5:19 pm
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As of late last night, there is now two temporary shops to buy
these basic items from players; only to bring in a steady, much
smaller server income.
- /Warp Materials_Shop
- /Warp Resources_Shop
I announced it though it seems to have been dismissed by many
others, haha.
Now as for the money wiping, it has been discussed, though-will
result a community discussion on the pros and cons.
This thread seems perfect for that if you would continue to
allow that. ;D
Once Jokars, Artemis_Reborn, Idwlod_MC, and a few other players
finish the new spawn with the tutorial; we might be building an
official shop.
(Combining Resources/Materials shop in a much nicer atmosphere)
I will admit, once we are all set up for 1.6 with the new spawn
and everything... All hell will break loose.
I now have the resources, time, and dedication to bring
BeardedCraft publicity to the next level. And that is exactly
what I plan to do.
So the sooner an agreement on where to place the bcEconomy is
reached, the quicker we can move on to perfecting the server to
have something for everyone.
#Post#: 4768--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Heathurr
Date: May 29, 2013, 5:55 pm
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Let's just say that this thread is for any discussion,
suggestions, or questions related to the game economy.
#Post#: 4772--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Pokemon1164
Date: May 29, 2013, 11:08 pm
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It would be unfair to take money like that. What about the money
we earned from selling extremely valuable things? It would just
make all those hard earned items you sold worthless.
#Post#: 4774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: rabidredneck
Date: May 30, 2013, 12:04 am
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Aaaaand in I come
First off, Most of what Ive been trying to do, you just
repeated...
Nick, Nicer atmosphere?? HA!! RabIsle and Asteria are at least
as nice of an atmosphere as new spawn...and I say this cause I
dont wanna hurt anyones feelings.
Now pokemon...So how much are you willing to give up from
exploiting /jobs by destroying our world?? Yeah, I said it and
you cant argue it...Im the one that crashed the server twice
repairing the damage you and 3 other players caused by stripping
plains n deserts. easy come easy go right?? And I know 1 player
in particular (not you poke) that made alot of money selling
those valuable items after buying them with exploit money. So it
counts as ill gotten gain. And sure, We ALL made alot of money
off /jobs, me too. But as soon as I realized how much money I
was actually making off it, I freaked out n told a staff member
higher than myself...what did you guys do?? yeah thats right...
#Post#: 4786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: SnowyApril
Date: May 30, 2013, 9:04 am
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So about the economy thingy. Yes getting rid of jobs was a good
thing to stop people from, you know, destroying stuff. But there
is one thing you do need to consider, what about the people who
did they jobs, and didn't do it to an extent where its over the
top. I admit, i have 3 mil, some from /jobs, some from selling,
some from just people giving money to me. But all in all, i
guess some people just had to ruin it for some people. And as
Rabid said, Poke, what actual money did you get from JUST
selling valuable objects? Not the money from jobs, the money of
selling stuff? It seems that a lot of plugins that are put in,
there's at least ONE person that just ruins it. I'm not saying
its just you poke. Oh no, once someone does it, other people
start to join in. And a money wipe. I suppose it would be nice.
But, me losing my 3 mill is a hard thing to let go of, but if i
have to, i will. I can easily get it back.. i hope. But still.
That aside, i think we can all agree that the /jobs were a huge
impact on the inflation on the server, and taking it out is a
nice thing, and we can just remember the time of having it. But,
getting money, we can get have people sell stuff. But for a
matter of fact, i know that there is going to be a person or two
that will go and dig/mine then sell and again and again, Once
again ruining some areas. So I let you think about that nick.
And anyone else who wants to reply to this.
~Snowy out
#Post#: 4791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Xumevyn
Date: May 30, 2013, 9:30 am
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What's that? A money wipe you say? As in, every player would be
forced to start over, on an equal footing? Without the unfair
benefit of the /jobs plugin's easily-abused features to give
them millions and millions of dollars to get ahead, leaving new
players hopelessly behind unless they, too, abuse the system?
Say it isn't so!
Honestly, a complete and total economy overhaul is exactly what
BeardedCraft needs. If my assumptions are correct and we begin
seeing an enormous influx of new players with the release of 1.6
(Nxck's advertising skills no doubt coming into play) then we
need to have all of this **** sorted out proper before that
happens. A smaller, simpler server shop that only buys items and
doesn't sell them, both to prevent the "just buy what you need"
mentality and to encourage player-run shops, as well as lowering
inflation.
But hey, lowering inflation isn't going to mean diddly squat if
there're still millions casually floating around the economy. I
hate to draw attention to specific players, but take zim1970 and
Tunnler. who I know for a fact each have $20,000,000+ and
$15,000,000+ respectively. That kind of absurd advantage gained
from the now-defunct /jobs command would give a serious
advantage over, well, just about anybody.
As an example, a relatively new player had spent a lot of time
mining diamonds, and set up a player shop in the Asterian
marketplace, selling them for $285/each. This rather effectively
undercut a certain player's usual price ($550/ea), and they
swooped in and immediately bought all (450+!) diamonds
available, simply to prevent others from buying anywhere else.
Normally, I'd applaud such practices, but when it was done using
money obtained from abusing /jobs, I'm inclined to say it's a
bit of an unfair advantage.
tl;dr Kill 'em all, let Notch sort 'em out. Money wipe is a yes
vote from me.
HTML [url=http://"
HTML http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/old-lol.gif"]Asteria's<br
/>reaction to all the kids complaining about losing their
ill-gotten cash.[/url]
#Post#: 4793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: lumpyjor5808
Date: May 30, 2013, 10:03 am
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Everyone will say no to the money wipe or players with millions
will convert it all to diamonds and basically solve nothing.
It's something that probably will have to be done if these
players continue to do exploits with jobs like farmer and
digger. Even if we nerf them the simplicity of getting cash from
them still makes them ideal for money. So my vote is for the
money wipe going.
Everyone will disagree but it needs to be done. We can restart
the economy, everyone will be on common grounds again (aka no
players with millions of cash and the ability to buy whatever
they want). We will just have to observe the players we KNOW
exploit the glitches and start delivering harsher punishments to
those who work the system.
This is my point of view on the subject
#Post#: 4794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Meko
Date: May 30, 2013, 10:07 am
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For Xu:
I cant edit ur post.
--- Code ---
HTML http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/old-lol.gif
--- End Code ---
HTML http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/old-lol.gif
#Post#: 4795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Let's talk about the economy
DIR By: Xumevyn
Date: May 30, 2013, 10:09 am
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--- Quote from: lumpyjor5808 link ---
>
> players with millions will convert it all to diamonds and
basically solve nothing.
--- End Quote ---
My question is, from where will these magical diamonds come
from? Millions of dollars = thousands of diamonds, and I'm
fairly certain I can count the number of people with 'thousands'
of diamonds on one hand.
Regardless, the point is a fairly valid one. They'll do their
best to convert all of their funds into materials in order to
preserve that advantage. My suggestion?
Wipe the money now, while the server is down.
Extreme? Yes. Effective, efficient? Also yes. Unfair? Cry some
more.
Also, Meko? I deliberately converted the image into a URL to
prevent cluttering this thread with it. :P Please remove it.
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