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#Post#: 148642--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: September 12, 2013, 1:10 pm
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What, JR, are you suggesting that Al Gore was undeserving?
#Post#: 148727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: ticohans Date: September 12, 2013, 11:21 pm
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[quote author=DelMarFan link=topic=96.msg148624#msg148624
date=1379002909]
They should have just given it to George W Bush for stopping
being US president.
[/quote]
Sorry, but there's not as big a difference between Bush and
Obama as you'd like to pretend. All the major stuff that Obama
campaigned against Bush on... can you tell me what's changed?
#Post#: 148747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: davep Date: September 13, 2013, 10:13 am
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Wilson was as much a pacifist as you could find in his campaign
days. Roosevelt was antiwar. Nixon campaigned on ending the
war.
Once you actually have the responsibility, you take a more
realistic view of things.
#Post#: 148753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: DelMarFan Date: September 13, 2013, 11:30 am
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I just think that's how much the Nobel committee and the
international community hated George Bush. If we hadn't just
had eight years of George Bush, there's no way Obama wins the
Nobel. I don't agree with it; I'm just calling it how I see it.
Along those lines, Obama has been very different in my mind.
George Bush and friends manufactured a war against Iraq where
there shouldn't have been one. Again, the vast public sentiment
against strikes in Syria is largely because of the war weariness
stemming from Iraq. Obama didn't cowboy up and attack Syria.
#Post#: 148774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: September 13, 2013, 1:41 pm
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[quote author=davep link=topic=96.msg148747#msg148747
date=1379085219]
Wilson was as much a pacifist as you could find in his campaign
days. Roosevelt was antiwar. Nixon campaigned on ending the
war.
Once you actually have the responsibility, you take a more
realistic view of things.
[/quote]Bull.
Wilson and FDR both WANTED to enter into the war, and Nixon
could have ended it at virtually any time on virtually the same
terms he DID end it on, which is to say the U.S. simply cutting
and running.
None of those three in any way support your contention that,
"Once you actually have the responsibility, you take a more
realistic view of things."
What in the world was accomplished by Nixon remaining in Vietnam
as long as he did, other than killing another 35-40K U.S.
troops, probably more than another quarter million Southeast
Asians, helping Pol Pot come to power and ****ing billions down
a rathole?
Staying did not help the South Vietnamese, and the videos of our
final evacuation show that we were literally turning and
running.
FDR was in no way antiwar, though the nation was, and Wilson
merely mouthed promises of staying out of war in order to get
re-elected.
It was not that "responsibility" changed their views. It was
simply that they lied to the voters to get re-elected.
#Post#: 148809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: ticohans Date: September 13, 2013, 5:05 pm
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[quote author=DelMarFan link=topic=96.msg148753#msg148753
date=1379089837]
I just think that's how much the Nobel committee and the
international community hated George Bush. If we hadn't just
had eight years of George Bush, there's no way Obama wins the
Nobel. I don't agree with it; I'm just calling it how I see it.
Along those lines, Obama has been very different in my mind.
George Bush and friends manufactured a war against Iraq where
there shouldn't have been one. Again, the vast public sentiment
against strikes in Syria is largely because of the war weariness
stemming from Iraq. Obama didn't cowboy up and attack Syria.
[/quote]
I'd suggest you either haven't been following the Syrian
narrative very closely or your blinders are on waaaaaaay too
tight here.
#Post#: 148825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: DelMarFan Date: September 13, 2013, 7:27 pm
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Blinders?
#Post#: 148847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: ticohans Date: September 13, 2013, 8:45 pm
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Obama has tried his darndest to "cowboy up" and attack Syria,
after painting himself into a corner with his shortsighted "red
line" chest beating. He has since rather absurdly tried to walk
back those comments after finding himself completely alone and
unable to lead anyone over to his side of the line. For all his
intentions of attacking Syria, he has even less constitutional
grounds to authorize force than Bush did in Iraq. As a result,
he has requested the permission of Congress to attack Syria and
there is a vote pending on the floor in which he will come up
short.
While Obama has been pressuring members of Congress to vote in
his favor, his own Secretary of State torpedoes the plan with an
ad lib, screw-the-playbook compromise proposal that Russia has
immediately seized upon and is in the process if forcing down
the Administration's throat. Putin is bullying the US to do his
bidding via the UN, and Obama is about to be strung up by the
"red line" of his own creation while showing himself to be
incapable of leading members of his own party and staff, let
alone the international community, who are instead rallying
around the great peacemaker Vladimir Putin.
It's amateur hour in the foreign policy comedy club. But you go
ahead and blame Bush.
#Post#: 148851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: September 13, 2013, 9:03 pm
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HTML https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1240403_657225910955706_1268426740_n.jpg
#Post#: 148852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
By: DelMarFan Date: September 13, 2013, 9:08 pm
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Nothing I said is countered by what you just said unless you are
equating Iraq and Syria, which is just nutty. I didn't say
anything about Obama doing well on foreign policy or Syria. If
anything, Obama backed himself into a corner on attacking Syria
with the whole red line comment. I do maintain that pre-Iraq,
public opinion on a limited strike against a hated dictator who
had used chemical weapons against his own people wouldn't have
been anything like what it is today.
It sounds to me like you're miffed that I dissed George Bush.
Yes, I do blame Bush for the disaster that was Iraq and for
generally being a crappy president.
Having said that, I'll get the hell out of this topic.
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