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#Post#: 482059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: JR
Date: November 6, 2023, 12:54 pm
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--- Quote from: brjones link ---
>
> Counsell made about $21 million total in his 13 year playing
career. Never made more than $3.2 million in any individual
season.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ha! We were thinking the exact same thing there!
#Post#: 482060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: vj
Date: November 6, 2023, 12:58 pm
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Hopefully opening up the wallet for a manager with the biggest
deal ever foreshadows a fun free agency...
#Post#: 482061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:03 pm
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Jesse Rogers
@JesseRogersESPN
The Cubs needed to ask the Brewers permission to speak to
Counsell before Nov.1. They did not. So this ALL came together
in the last few days. Its likely to be the most expensive
managerial hire in MLB history
#Post#: 482062--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:05 pm
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With Steele-Hendricks-Taillon, plus one variably expensive and
variably capable free agent signed, that should leave one
rotation spot to fill internally.
I kinda like that kind of a landscape, where there is an
available spot to win. Wicks and Assad seem the obvious
favorites.
1. Wicks would seem the default favorite. But he's got lots of
options left, plus I think they'll want to be careful with load
management. *IF* he looks sharp in camp, default guy. But if
he doesn't look fairly sharp, I'm not sure he's a lock.
2. Assad had the best ERA of any of our starters last year.
The run on his fastball was sometimes kinda awesome. "Game
face", he's got it. His control slips on occasion, but usually
he has reasonable command and the ability to maneuver within the
strike zone or on the edge. Yes, he was lucky, but yes, he's
also pretty good. He'd be a very legit rotation option, as
needed.
Assad's composure and control I think make him a great fit for
relief. He could be really nice as a utility guy. Late relief,
use-when-winning? Why not? Fill in some long relief? Why not?
Pick up a start periodically to give Wicks, Hendricks, Taillon,
Steele a start off and avoid dead arm? Why not? Assad could
kinda do anything. And yeah, not being the typical Wildman
reliever, I think he could be invaluable in that role.
Smyly and Wesneski could be deeper rotation options, but
hopefully not needed. Smyly probably has a role for lefty
relief. Wesneski, not sure what he'll be. Options guy at Iowa?
If so, in rotation or relief? Long reliever Cubs? Could he
improve his consistency and control enough to be a solid
use-when-winning reliever. To me he kinda seems so hyper and
emotional, I'm not sure if he has the composure to be an
excellent relief guy. But, maybe he improves some things and
makes some adjustments, and confidence follows. Would be
interesting if they gave him another rotation shot, with Assad
as pen utility and Wicks on option.
It's a long season, of course. Horton is not an option fo
April, I don't think. But if it's summer and the Cubs look like
a playoff team, perhaps a good one at that, I'd think Horton
might become very relavant. Who knows?
Will be interesting to see Ben Brown next year. Can he show the
consistency and control, and have enough diversity, to remain a
rotation guy? Or will Steele, Wicks, Assad, and Horton kind of
all be ahead of him for in-system guys, and there just isn't
space for him? And perhaps if Hoyer is kinda all-in Nowacrat
for the year, he won't really have much space for an
inconsistent guy who's kinda figuring things out still? Or,
might Brown be full healthy, and perhaps able to be a pretty
high-ceiling, very reasonable rotation option? Or, a very
compelling trade chip? As reb has suggested, I kinda feel like
he's more likely to end up in relief. But it would sure be nice
to have a guy in relief not because he washed out as a starter
or because he's a wildman, but more because he's just a really
good pitchers but there isn't space for him in rotation.
#Post#: 482063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:07 pm
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Wow, no wonder Hoyer didn't have time to be working out an
extension with Hendricks! :) :) . Too busy with Counsell.
#Post#: 482064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:10 pm
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Tough break for Ross. Great guy, good with players, good with
management, good with media. Manages through a run of
rebuilding years, then just when the team is finally ready to
start being a playoff team (maybe), he gets bounced. i think
he'll very definitely have the opportunity to manage again, *IF*
he wants to.
#Post#: 482065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: VJ link ---
>
> Hopefully opening up the wallet for a manager with the biggest
deal ever foreshadows a fun free agency...
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, wouldn't think Counsell would choose us if he figured
we're rolling with Stroman and Tauchman next year. Must sense
that the Cubs are willing to make a push.
#Post#: 482066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Playtwo
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:15 pm
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Encouraging to me that Counsell is choosing the Cubs. It's got
to be about more than the money. He knows the Cub organization
inside and out and he must see great potential for accomplishing
more than the winning the Central.
#Post#: 482067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Reb
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:31 pm
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--- Quote from: JR link ---
>
> This is even more ruthless than ditching Rick Renteria for
Madden back in the day.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, reminds me of the Maddon hiring in the sense that have a
capable, okay, manager in place…and then aim higher than that.
Maybe influenced by the two most recent WS Champs having won
with very experienced managers.
As has been reported widely, Counsel was a union guy when a
player and probably now motivated to raise the salary bar for
other managers. That’s how MLBPA operated for players since its
inception.
For Cubs, of course no CBT in play when paying a manager so who
knows how impacts player payroll. Kinda doubt that it
foreshadows much along those lines. Should be exceeding first
level CBT in 2024 in any case, I would think.
#Post#: 482071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: November 6, 2023, 1:49 pm
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I wonder how Counsell and Josh Hader got along? Counsell is
used to operating with some great relievers. I wonder if he'll
not seem as smart without that luxury? But *IF* Hoyer was to
hypothetically spend on Hader, that could really change the look
of the bullpen. Wonder if Counsell would lobby for Hader? Or
if Counsell could recruit Hader, and if Hader would *like* to
play for Counsell again? Or maybe after years together with the
Brewers, both guys dislike each other and having Counsell would
be no draw?
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