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#Post#: 481632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Deeg
Date: October 26, 2023, 4:57 pm
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Swanson wins the 2023 Fielding Bible award at SS, only unanimous
winner.
#Post#: 481633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Dave23
Date: October 26, 2023, 6:29 pm
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Still hard to believe some here find fault with that signing…
#Post#: 481641--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: October 26, 2023, 10:36 pm
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.251/.343/.429 ISO .177, 29
.244/.328/.416 ISO .172, 29
Swanson’s defense better not decline for a long, long time.
#Post#: 481645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Reb
Date: October 27, 2023, 1:16 am
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Really great shortstops can still be excellent defensively in
mid-30s. Not everybody but quite a few of the perennials do
that.
Through age 34 or 35 age guys include Tejada, Campaneris,
Aparicio, Concepcion, JJ Hardy, Belanger, Jose Valentin, Gagne,
Vizquel were excellent defensively. Guys like Cardenas and Marty
Marion thru age 33. Cal at 34/35. Of course, Ozzie was still
terrific at 39.
It’s the exception to the general rule that happens sometimes
with great players doing their thing. Most SSs decline earlier
than that defensively but the predictable ones are the mere
mortals. The mortals are going to decline earlier.
Remains to be seen how long Swanson can maintain this level of
glove excellence but he’s in the conversation with the guys in
second paragraph above and quite possible he can do the same at
their advanced ages.
#Post#: 481655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: October 28, 2023, 7:42 am
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Kaplan and Ceremeni are really pushing the idea of Soto for
Morel, Wesenski or Assad, plus a prospect (not PCA, Horton,
Shaw).
#Post#: 481656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: davep
Date: October 28, 2023, 9:14 am
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That is an interesting grouping. It sounds as if that trio are
considered to be of roughly equal value. In my opinion, Morel
is worth much more than Wesneski and Assad combined.
Why would they want one year of Soto, at any substantial price,
unless they could sign him to a longer term contract BEFORE the
trade?
#Post#: 481657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Playtwo
Date: October 28, 2023, 9:26 am
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Soto makes a lot of sense if the Cubs plan to be highly
competitive in 2024. He would make it possible for the offense
to again be elite in run scoring. And while keeping the Cubs
competitive, he gives Hoyer time to assess young players to
decide how to go about shoring up the offense for the longer
term.
How much should the Cubs be willing to sacrifice for Soto? My
view is that they are best off trading Morel if they are
convinced he can only be a corner OFer or DH. Under those
circumstances, I'd sooner trade him than Assad/Wesneski (both of
who have the potential to be positive contributors in an area of
need). I doubt the Padres would take Morel plus B-level
prospects for Soto but I do that deal if I'm the Cubs.
#Post#: 481658--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Deeg
Date: October 28, 2023, 10:22 am
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I would do Morel and Assad/Wesneski but nothing of value on top
of that.
#Post#: 481660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: craig
Date: October 28, 2023, 10:50 am
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Assad >> Wesneski. They are not at all at the same level.
Assad was our best pitcher, had the lowest ERA of the starters,
and seemed like a rise-to-the-occasion guy who excels in the
clutch. Throws harder than any of our rotation guys. Seems to
be still getting better. The amount of run he was getting on
some of his fastballs at the end of the season was impressive.
And while he gives up HR's at average rate, he's not a
bomb-factory like Wesneski, Tailon, and Smyly. I'd be really
hesitant to give up five years of club-control Assad.
I know he got lucky last year, left a lot of runners on base,
and his FIP is much higher than his actual ERA was. Even so, he
seems a legit solid big-league pitcher, maybe a pretty good one,
in whatever role.
Personally, I doubt he'd hold up great if asked to relentlessly
pitch every 5th day and hold up for 160 innings. He hit 109
innings last year, and after being in the rotation for ~8 starts
straight, I think he looked tired. If they ride him every 5th
day all season, I expect his fastball to lack some of its good
life come August/September/October. Think he'll need some
breaks.....
But yeah, Assad's value is nowhere near the same plateau as
Wesneski.
#Post#: 481661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in ‘24
DIR By: Deeg
Date: October 28, 2023, 11:04 am
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--- Quote from: craig link ---
>
> Assad >> Wesneski. They are not at all at the same level.
>
> Assad was our best pitcher, had the lowest ERA of the
starters, and seemed like a rise-to-the-occasion guy who excels
in the clutch. Throws harder than any of our rotation guys.
Seems to be still getting better. The amount of run he was
getting on some of his fastballs at the end of the season was
impressive. And while he gives up HR's at average rate, he's
not a bomb-factory like Wesneski, Tailon, and Smyly. I'd be
really hesitant to give up five years of club-control Assad.
>
> I know he got lucky last year, left a lot of runners on base,
and his FIP is much higher than his actual ERA was. Even so, he
seems a legit solid big-league pitcher, maybe a pretty good one,
in whatever role.
>
> Personally, I doubt he'd hold up great if asked to
relentlessly pitch every 5th day and hold up for 160 innings.
He hit 109 innings last year, and after being in the rotation
for ~8 starts straight, I think he looked tired. If they ride
him every 5th day all season, I expect his fastball to lack some
of its good life come August/September/October. Think he'll
need some breaks.....
>
> But yeah, Assad's value is nowhere near the same plateau as
Wesneski.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, not that velocity is everything but “throws harder than
any of our rotation guys” isn’t accurate. Taillon throws harder
(as does Wesneski, for the record).
Assad’s topline numbers are certainly good. By every metric
that tries to measure such things, he get really lucky in 22 and
23 both. Some guys outpitch those metrics consistently, and
maybe he’s one of those guys. I think Wesneski has more upside
if he figures out a way to neutralize lefties somewhat. I don’t
think it’s remotely a slam dunk than Assad has more value to
another team.
In any case, I’d give either one and Morel to SD for Soto. Not
a drop more. I wonder if they’d consider taking Happ (if he’d
waive his NTC) since they’re not tanking. Soto gives us three
guys who can basically only play corner OF or DH. Not a factor
in dissuading you from acquiring a guy of Soto’s ability, but
not a non-issue either.
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