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       #Post#: 481402--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: craig Date: October 18, 2023, 10:55 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Seems like only a few years ago there was talk of multi-inning
       relievers.  Josh Hader in 2018 and 2019 was 81/55 and 76/61
       IP/G.  Counsell some dumb pre-analytic fossil?  I vaguely recall
       Ross talking about such a thing, including during and after
       Covid season.  But Cubs never really went that way, much.
       Keegan got used multi-inning a fair bit, and this year Assad did
       before he pitched his way into the rotation.
       reb, I have no objection to the 1-inning-usage plan.  I think it
       works well, situationally.  When you've got a sufficiently deep
       bullpen.  The Cubs didn't this year, that's why I'm really
       interested in how they build the pen moving forward.  Getting a
       good and deeper pen could be one key pathway to improving the
       team next season.
       You made one comment with which I have some issue:  "The primary
       issue isn’t whether multi innings in one game or solo innings
       several times is healthier. The primary issue is what’s more
       conducive to winning."  Seems to me that having Adbert, Leiter,
       and Fulmer all become too unhealthy to to pitch efffectively,
       that ended up being non-conducive to winning?  Seems to me that
       keeping guys healthy enough to be effective is VERY much
       relevant to winning.  The key Cub relievers didn't hold up this
       season, for whatever reason.
       My view is that you want to have a crowd of relievers good
       enough to split up the innings without either blowing many wins
       or burning out the relievers.  During the summe stretch where
       the Cubs were good, Ross largely relied on
       Fulmer-Leiter-Merryweather-Adbert in game when we were winning.
       One can blame Ross for not having the courage to use other guys;
       or blame Bellinger for hitting too much during that period and
       causing too many leads and too much use of the use-when-winning
       relievers; or blame Adbert/Leiter/Fulmer for being unable to
       handle the load that many good relieves on other teams to
       endure; or blame Palencia and Wesneski and Kay for not being
       good enough to earn more trust.  Beats me.
       I just think we really want to get better and deeper in the
       bullpen, and if we do it could be good for both winning and
       health.  Sure am hoping the guaranteed guys Hoyer signs are more
       productive than Fulmer and Boxberger were.  And sure am hoping
       that some of the options guys who won't have guaranteed
       contracts or roster spots will step up and be good whenever they
       do get chances.
       #Post#: 481403--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: Reb Date: October 19, 2023, 12:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Craig- There was nothing unusual about the usage of Alzolay,
       Leiter, Fulmer,  (and Merryweather) compared to the usage of
       other relievers on other clubs around MLB. I looked at that in,
       I think, late July comparing innings and appearances to other
       relievers. Did a post on that.
       The issue with the Cubs guys above was the absence of track
       record—like any other position when you don’t know if the sample
       size is too small to be predictive. Effective relievers all
       around baseball had very similar appearances and innings.
       Without a track record, just don’t know if the player is going
       to hold up. Cubs relievers didn’t hold up. Yes, more of a
       injury/health matter with an untested reliever than an untested
       2B but don’t think it was overwork in the general sense for a
       good reliever. If pitching effectively, going to be worked
       aggressively all around MLB.
       Leiter is a particularly interesting case. Never read or heard
       an explanation from anybody as to why the splitter disappeared.
       Not just ineffective but kind of abandoned the pitch. Did the
       grip cause him pain?  Something else? Think probably a very
       specific matter peculiar to Leiter rather than “overwork” of
       innings or appearances.
       Some of this bullpen stuff is just luck. DBacks called up a
       lefty rookie in Sept who pitched great. Picked up a guy on a
       waiver claim who was terrific last month of season. Ginkel was
       awful first-half and very good second-half. Maybe Cubs could
       have acquired Sewald at trade deadline (instead of DBacks
       getting him) if willing to include Canario in a deal instead of
       sending Velazquez-for-Cuas. Maybe that’s fortunate in long-run
       or maybe cost Cubs a post-season run. Who knows. In any case,
       Boom, DBacks have a bullpen and Cubs don’t in Sept.
       #Post#: 481405--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: Reb Date: October 19, 2023, 1:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would not use Rob Deer as a comp for Canario but the name came
       up and worth emphasizing how hard it is to have a 14 WAR career,
       as Deer did.
       Also would not describe Canario a “five-tool guy.” That kind of
       description typically is reserved for elite prospects, not a
       prospect ranked #21, 14, 14 in Cubs system by Fangraphs, BA,
       Pipeline.
       For one thing, very exuberant to say that Canario had a
       particularly good hit tool—big part of being a “five-tool guy.”
       He’s a .264 lifetime hitter with high Ks and seems unlikely to
       ever hit for average. His game is power, which is a big deal.
       That’s the allure. We’ll see how it manifests.
       #Post#: 481406--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: Reb Date: October 19, 2023, 1:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=davep link=topic=628.msg481377#msg481377
       date=1697642664]
       ……In my opinion, the Cubs made a big mistake when they left a
       slumping Tauchman in center during the last portion of the
       stretch run, rather than putting Canario out in center for the
       last several weeks.  Canario is the kind of player that can have
       a hot streak that will carry a team, even though his long term
       potential may be limited.  His kind of power can be intimidating
       when one swing of the bat can change the course of the entire
       season……
       [/quote]
       Tauchman had a .377 OBP over the final four weeks of the season
       and a .395 OBP over the final two weeks. He did what he was
       asked to do: get on base. Canario would have supplied more power
       but it would have been an odd decision at the time to opt for an
       untested rookie over a guy who was consistently getting on base.
       Tauchman had 2.3 bWAR for the season in 108 games. So, he was
       basically a 3 plus WAR guy over a full season, an above average
       regular.
       Not saying going to do that again in 2024. Maybe a good 4th
       OFer, I don’t know. Maybe a legit regular or platoon guy. But,
       in any case, Tauchman was a solid guy in 2023 and got on base
       during crunch time, albeit without power.
       #Post#: 481413--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: craig Date: October 19, 2023, 7:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Deeg link=topic=628.msg481400#msg481400
       date=1697685740]
       ..Canario is a completely different sort of player.  Basically,
       a five-tool guy - with the ceiling and floor being dependent on
       how well the hit tool holds up.  He has plus speed and a
       plus-plus arm, can handle all three OF positions and according
       to the scouts is above average at either corner.  He can steal
       bases and generally help you with his speed on the
       basepaths....[/quote]
       HR's are hits and are an efficient way to score.  But 5-tool is
       kinda hyperbole...  for a guy who doesn't seem to have the "hit"
       tool.  Obviously lots of 4-tool guys who never make it without
       hitting.  If he hits enough to mash, his corner defense should
       be nice and he runs well.  I don't get the sense that either
       defense or speed are exceptional.  Never attempted more than 31
       steals in any season, and his career SB/CS success rate is
       below-average.  My sense is that his defensive jumps/instincts
       may be unexceptional, which may explain why he's rarely been
       projected as a big-league CFer.
       #Post#: 481415--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: Deeg Date: October 19, 2023, 8:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       He was 23/26 in steals last season and basically ordered not to
       try this season.  He's plenty fast and the defense at the
       corners is above average.  Yeah, he'll go as far as the hit tool
       takes him, but he has diverse enough skills to succeed as a
       player without following the Rob Deer model.
       #Post#: 481418--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: craig Date: October 19, 2023, 10:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I wonder what the Cubs internally think of Canario's CF defense?
       Obvoiusly they don't project him as an asset there for years.
       But, we're kind of in a spot with the PCA situation, hoping he's
       ready soon but knowing he's not ready yet, and not being sure
       how long it might take to be ready.
       So, what do we do with CF?
       1.  Go and pursue a Damon Buford and give him a guaranteed
       contract, even if you hope he's replaced by July?
       2.  Go with Tauchman, and take your chances?  He had a career
       year at age 32 with .252 average, .377 slugging, and 100 OPS+,
       and the bWAR that reb notes.  Bring him back and assume more of
       the same?  If so, will you get it?  Getting to 83 wins involved
       a lot of lucky magic for the Cubs, but I admit some fear that
       Tauchman might revert to the guy who was OPS+ of 56 and 84 his
       previous two big-league seasons.
       3.  Go with Canario-Tauchman, and take your chances?  Hope that
       Canario breaks out and goes Morel, and that his defense is
       anti-awful enough to be playable for a few months, even if PCA
       is the long-term defender?
       4.  RESIGN BELLINGER!!!  This seems the ideal solution.  He can
       help to improvise.  If Canario breaks out, Bellinger can play
       1st.  If Tauchman is doing OK, Bellinger can play 1st.  If both
       guys are terrible, Bellinger can play center and you can
       improvise at 1B.
       Seems like bringing Bellinger back would be so helpful for
       staffing CF, and adapting to the uncertainty of when PCA is
       ready, if ever.
       #Post#: 481419--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: craig Date: October 19, 2023, 11:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Part of me worries that the Cubs might relapse a fair bit
       offensively.
       1.  Bellinger had a big year; either he won't be back, or if he
       is he probably won't match that season?
       2.  Tauchman had a probably fluky-decent year.  Probably will
       relapse?
       3.  Morel was out of his mind for a while early, he might never
       have a stretch like that again.
       4.  Gomes was shockingly solid and got so many clutch hits; he
       could well regress.
       5.  Swanson was pretty good for a while, but was awful late:
       might he be less of the former and more of the latter going
       forward?
       6.  Wisdom was out of his mind for a while early; he'll likely
       never have a stretch like that again, either.
       7.  Candelario had a great first week, but was mostly an easy
       out during his Cubs time.  If we bring him back, might he be the
       .243/.739 guy he's been over his career?  Or maybe even worse,
       more like the .217/.633 guy he was in 2022?
       Even as is, the offense kinda overachieved.  6th in runs, while
       being 11th in slugging and average, and 15th in HR.  Very easy
       to imagine not getting as many runs even if they did reproduce
       those 11th/11th/15th underlying numbers.  And assuming some
       reversion to the mean for individuals who had surprising years,
       and/or losing Bellinger, lots of ways to imagine we won't be
       top-6 in runs again.
       Or maybe it will sustain or improve.  No Mancini or Hosmer, and
       you replace them with Alonso, who posts a career-average .870
       OPS or better, while Bellinger also returns and doesn't regress
       at all?  Maybe 3B, DH, and 1B are all better?  Maybe Suzuki
       thinks it's August all season?  Maybe Canario explodes, PCA
       improves as a hitter and is perfectly respectable if/when he
       gets a chance, and maybe as ben envisions, maybe Morel takes
       another step and is as good or even better offensively?  Heh
       heh, in the mostly remotely improbable world, imagine *IF* Morel
       hypothetically played regular 3B, Bellinger CF, Alonso 1B, and
       Canario DH, this would NOT be a 15th-in-HR's offense!  :):). (Or
       shift Canario to CF, Bellinger to 1st, and Alonso to DH....).
       Heh heh,that kind of roster might be up near or even beyond the
       Phillies and Dodgers in HR's, maybe only 2nd to Atlanta.  A team
       with Morel at 3B and either Alonso at 1st or Canario in center
       might be pretty bad defensively, of course....
       #Post#: 481427--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: Deeg Date: October 19, 2023, 4:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hoyer's doublespeak is vibing like he doesn't expect Bellinger
       back.
       #Post#: 481428--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in ‘24
       By: davep Date: October 19, 2023, 4:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Not doublespeak.  Realism.
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