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#Post#: 42079--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: davep Date: November 8, 2011, 9:18 pm
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Please feel free to place me on ignore. It was presumptuous of
me to advance ideas that are contrary to yours.
#Post#: 42081--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Jes Beard Date: November 8, 2011, 9:30 pm
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I would have had no problem with the Cubs getting rid of
Zambrano after punching Barrett.... though the team was far
better off for getting rid of Barrett.
And his behavior at other times has also been out of line, but
the suspension last year, for a relatively minor dugout rant
seemed a bit excessive, though when combined with an insistence
that the learn how to control his temper seemed to make some
sense (even if it would have made more sense to have him having
already done that in the off season).
But the restricted list this season for cleaning out his locker
and essentially talking to himself about retiring (no teammate
was present and he was talking to no one with the Cubs) seemed a
bit absurd. I suspect he could have filed and won a grievance
over it.
I wonder what the folks complaining about Zambrano would have
said if they had Al Kaline on their team when Kaline got mad
after striking out and slammed his bat in the dugout and broke
his arm.... or if they had Ron Santo get mad and try to strangle
his manager, needing to be restrained by his teammates.
[quote author=JeffH link=topic=62.msg42072#msg42072
date=1320802391]
I trust our baseball operations leadership to make the right
decision.
[/quote]
.... until you don't.
Just remember that the baseball leadership we have now is the
same leadership which allowed Red Sox players to drink in the
clubhouse during games and allowed the entire team to slip away
from Francona during one of the game's historic collapses.
[quote author=davep link=topic=62.msg42079#msg42079
date=1320808699]
Please feel free to place me on ignore. It was presumptuous of
me to advance ideas that are contrary to yours.
[/quote]
While tico has a fair number of posts, you might actually have
to look fairly hard to find anything that would resembling an
original idea from him.
#Post#: 42082--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Deeg Date: November 8, 2011, 9:32 pm
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And again, ask Barrett about those temper tantrums. What Z did
to him is one of the most vile and disgusting things a teammate
has done to another in recent memory. And Hendry letting him
get away with it was a sure sign that he was jumping the shark
hard.
#Post#: 42083--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: davep Date: November 8, 2011, 9:36 pm
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I know that Barrett and Zambrano had a fight in the dugout, but
I heard nothing more about it. What is the real story?
#Post#: 42085--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Jes Beard Date: November 8, 2011, 9:43 pm
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I don't know.... but it was vile and disgusting.
#Post#: 42094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Deeg Date: November 9, 2011, 1:06 am
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Barrett made an error, Z showed him up in the dugout, they went
down the tunnel shouting at each other and Z sucker punched
Barrett in the face and put him in the hospital.
#Post#: 42098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Santo4HofF Date: November 9, 2011, 5:16 am
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Cliff Floyd told the story of the fight last week on MLB radio.
He said he came out of the training room and Z was pacing yhe
club house with his shirt off ranting how he was going to kill
Barret. Barret came into the locker room to talk to Z. Cliff
told Barret that if Z starts throwing punches you are on your
own. Well the fight was one sided with Michael bloodied.
Teamates showed up and asked Cliff why he didn't try to break it
up. Cliff told them he didn't want his a.. kicked too.
#Post#: 42105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Jes Beard Date: November 9, 2011, 7:59 am
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[quote author=Deeg link=topic=62.msg42094#msg42094
date=1320822412]
Barrett made an error, Z showed him up in the dugout, they went
down the tunnel shouting at each other and Z sucker punched
Barrett in the face and put him in the hospital.
[/quote]
How do you "sucker punch" someone in the face?
What does it mean to "sucker punch" someone?
I always took it to mean to catch someone completely off guard,
catching them with a punch which they did not see coming, and
could not have anticipated.
But you have described a situation in which Zambrano hit
Barrett, in the face, and after they had been shouting at each
other and left the dugout.
My memory of Barrett is that his eyes were right there in the
front of his face, meaning he would have been able to see any
punch thrown to his face, and anyone being shouted at by another
person, and who effectively "steps outside" with that shouting
person so they are out of sight of others would really have to
be pretty slow to be very surprised if the shouts escalated to
violence.
Any chance, Deeg, that you might have some general hostility
toward Zambrano coloring your description of what happened....
particularly that reference to "sucker punched"?
HTML http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sucker+punch
sucker punch
n
1. a sudden surprise punch, esp from behind
#Post#: 42137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: davep Date: November 9, 2011, 11:00 am
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If Zambrano hit Barrett with no warning, that would certainly be
a "sucker punch". Is that how Cliff described it? If so,
Zambrano should have been suspended for the rest of the year,
and expelled forever, if it happened again.
Did Zambrano ever do it again, or was that a one time thing?
#Post#: 42178--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Jes Beard Date: November 9, 2011, 4:18 pm
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dave, if you and I are facing each other, and I am yelling at
you, and your eyes are open, I might well be described as
punching you without provocation, but it can't really qualify as
a "sucker punch." And that is not just my definition. It is
the commonly accepted definition for the phrase.
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