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#Post#: 42048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Playtwo Date: November 8, 2011, 5:49 pm
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Z has a fierce desire to win. He also exudes an air of
selfishness, always ready to show up a teammate after a miscue.
I think it would be the right statement to make to be willing to
eat the vast majority of Z's contract in a trade. Z just isn't
good enough to warrant tolerating the negatives that he brings.
#Post#: 42052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: ticohans Date: November 8, 2011, 6:10 pm
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[quote author=davep link=topic=62.msg42044#msg42044
date=1320792403]
Pitching wins may be meaningless over one season, but hardly
over a long career. How many starting pitchers that have been
in the league more than 5 years have a higher won/loss
percentage than Zambrano?
[/quote]
you're suggesting that z is the same pitcher he was back when he
got all his wins. he's not. this is a straw man on par with jes.
#Post#: 42057--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: FDISK Date: November 8, 2011, 6:17 pm
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"The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a
hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid,
either."
I'm not sure that quote has any application in baseball (even in
the 'Hot Stove" topic)... but I'm pretty sure that:
hot lid = Carlos Zambrano
Cat's a$$ = Me
#Post#: 42059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Chris27 Date: November 8, 2011, 6:19 pm
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[quote]He walked out on his team, as, I remember, did Sandberg a
couple of times.[/quote]
You're not counting his retirements as walking out on his team,
are you?
#Post#: 42063--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: CurtOne Date: November 8, 2011, 6:22 pm
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Dave, I think you see the difference between a player losing his
temper or having words with a teammate and the behavior of
Carlos Zambrano. You have to be putting all of us on.
#Post#: 42065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: Ron Date: November 8, 2011, 6:28 pm
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Is it possible that Jes has taken over DaveP's identity?
???
#Post#: 42069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: davep Date: November 8, 2011, 7:05 pm
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I have never understood the antagonism and resentment exhibited
towards Zambrano.
I resent the fact that Ramirez makes millions of dollars per
year and stands at home plate and watches to see if the ball he
hit goes over the fence. I resent Soriano and Ramirez trotting
down to first base after a ground ball that might well be turned
into an error with a little hustle. I resent any professional
that refuses to put forth his best effort. But Zambrano has
never loafed in his life. Most of the criticisms of him are due
to an excess of effort rather than a lack thereof.
Yes, Zambrano is paid too much. That is reason to resent the
management that gave him the contract (a contract that no one on
this board objected to at the time it was signed). But why
resent the guy that got it, and is obviously trying his best.
As far as most of his problems have been concerned, they are
mostly trivial. If he breaks a gatorade stand, fine him 100,000
dollars and hope he does it again. If he tells the clubhouse
guy that he is retiring, suspend him for a month and save a
couple of million dollars, and be grateful that he won more than
he lost on a lousy team. True, he hit a team mate. But a
couple of years ago, Fielder hit HIS team mate in the dugout,
and everyone thought it was a great manifestation of his
competative spirit. And they now want him on the Cubs.
I wouldn't put up with any of this stuff on my little league
team. But we are not trying to build character at this level.
We are trying to win, and Zambrano has helped us do that. If we
can improve the team by getting rid of him, great. But giving
him away hurts, not helps the team.
Tico - Zambrano is no longer as good as he was prior to 2008.
But during that time he has still been a winning pitcher on a
losing team.
#Post#: 42071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: CurtOne Date: November 8, 2011, 7:28 pm
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You're totally misreading. This is not ANGER at Z. Nor is it
resentment or antagonism. It's just "enough is enough."
#Post#: 42072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: JeffH Date: November 8, 2011, 7:33 pm
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None of us can know for sure, but there is a genuine chance that
the Cubs organization is truly amateurish and dysfunctional.
Getting rid of Zambrano (and, potentially, others) may be
necessary to "change the culture".
I trust our baseball operations leadership to make the right
decision.
#Post#: 42077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2011
By: ticohans Date: November 8, 2011, 9:12 pm
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"Tico - Zambrano is no longer as good as he was prior to 2008.
But during that time he has still been a winning pitcher on a
losing team."
And the jes-like behavior continues...
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