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#Post#: 35607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Jes Beard Date: September 29, 2011, 12:03 pm
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[quote author=brjones link=topic=59.msg35597#msg35597
date=1317312590]
Make sure there is starting pitcher depth. Coleman and Russell
should not go into 2012 as the 6th and 7th starters.
[/quote]
True. With an improved defense behind him, Coleman should go
into 2012 as the 4th or 5th starter.
[quote author=brjones link=topic=59.msg35597#msg35597
date=1317312590]
Dump Zambrano and Soriano, with the strategy being to take the
deal that serves the most money. No matter how much of these
contracts the Cubs pay, they're not going to get anything better
than some team's 20th-25th best prospect.
[/quote]
Not even close to accurate.
While I am not saying the Cubs will do so, if they agreed to eat
ALL of each of those contracts, they could likely get a very
nice prospect in the bargain. Zambrano still has the potential
to return to what he was at the end of last season, when he was
turning in true ace performances, and Soriano would likely be a
perfectly acceptable DH for the next couple of years for some AL
team. Both could bring much more than a team's 20th-25th best
prospect. Now, I am not saying the Cubs either will or should
eat that much contract, but they could.
#Post#: 35610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Cubsin Date: September 29, 2011, 12:19 pm
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Byrd is a trading chip if the Cubs commit to B. Jackson. And
aren't Mark Buerle and Edwin Jackson among the FA pitchers?
#Post#: 35619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Jes Beard Date: September 29, 2011, 12:59 pm
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Byrd should be a trading chip even if the Cubs do not commit to
Jackson.
The Cubs can always replace Byrd with utter roster fill until
talent develops, or replace him with Campana who would add
considerable excitement, even if his hitting is weak enough he
would actually be a performance liability.
#Post#: 35627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: CurtOne Date: September 29, 2011, 1:34 pm
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[quote author=brjones link=topic=59.msg35597#msg35597
date=1317312590]
[font=times new roman]
Some things I would ideally like to see this offseason (in
addition to adding the Friedman/Maddon or Epstein/Francona
tandem):
[/font][list][li][font=times new roman][font=Times New
Roman]Target CJ Wilson, and make the best offer unless bidding
gets ridiculous. I'd definitely be willing to go as far as
Jered Weaver's 5 year, $85 million
deal.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new roman][font=Times
New Roman]Attempt to add a young hitter who could become a
building block player along with Castro and Garza (and hopefully
Jackson). I've mentioned Alonso (blocked by Votto) and Morrison
(out of favor with the Marlins) several times, but there are
probably others out there. Dominic Brown and Brandon Belt come
to mind immediately as top prospects whose teams just don't seem
to want to play them, for example. I'm sure there are
others.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new roman][font=Times
New Roman]Make Ramirez a "take it or leave it" offer pretty
quickly around 2 years, $22-$26 million with a team option for
2014. If he doesn't accept, move on and find an under the radar
trade (Chase Headley? Martin
Prado?).[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new roman][font=Times
New Roman]Avoid Fielder and Pujols because their contracts will
be far too long. Find a short term (1-3 years at most) middle
of the lineup hitter (Beltran? Ethier? Wright?), which will
allow the Cubs a little more time to determine where they need
long term help.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new
roman][font=Times New Roman]Find the best trade offer for Marmol
and take it. He's far more Eric Gagne than Mariano
Rivera.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new roman][font=Times
New Roman]Dump Zambrano and Soriano, with the strategy being to
take the deal that serves the most money. No matter how much of
these contracts the Cubs pay, they're not going to get anything
better than some team's 20th-25th best prospect. They're better
off saving an extra $3 million or whatever. Obviously, there
are exceptions (specifically, I'm thinking about Zambrano having
value to Ozzie Guillen, and eating more money might make him
appealing as a second piece in a Morrison deal)...but generally,
saving money should be the
goal.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new roman][font=Times
New Roman]Make sure there is starting pitcher depth. Coleman
and Russell should not go into 2012 as the 6th and 7th
starters.[/font][/font][/li][li][font=times new
roman][font=Times New Roman]Make it clear that CF is Brett
Jackson's job to lose.[/font][/font][/li][/list][font=times new
roman][font=Times New Roman]
The Marlins are the most interesting team to watch in relation
to the Cubs' offseason, I think. Recent developments just seem
to be great for the Cubs. We all know of Morrison's issues and
Zambrano's strong relationship with Ozzie. But there are other
factors too...they may not have a closer after the Nunez/Oviedo
situation (making them a possible destination for Marmol).
There have been rumors the last few days that they will shop the
disappointing but reasonablly productive Ricky Nolasco (giving a
potential contract match for Marmol who fills a Cubs need).
They could potentially be a one stop shop to address several
things the Cubs need to do this offseason.[/font][/font]
[/quote]
I agree with a lot of this. I do think you go after one prime
FA a year; you don't try to repair all the damage in one year.
I would have Prince, Pujols, CJ Wilson and not much else on my
list and give it my best shot.
The problem with trading for a lot of those players who could
potentially help us, the problem is...who do you trade? The
chips are few. Byrd, Wells? Beyond that, you have Marshall and
Soto, people you'd prefer to keep, I would think. Either the
player or the Cubs have pretty much made Marmol, Colvin,
Zambrano untradeable. That makes it kind of hopeless.
#Post#: 35629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Cactus Date: September 29, 2011, 1:48 pm
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[quote author=CurtOne link=topic=59.msg35627#msg35627
date=1317321262]
I agree with a lot of this. I do think you go after one prime
FA a year; you don't try to repair all the damage in one year.
[/quote]
Jim Hendry did that when he signed who was arguably the best
free agent three years in a row.
2007 Alfonso Soriano
2008 Kosuke Fukudome
2009 Milton Bradley
Pitching, Pitching, and more pitching.
#Post#: 35635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Jes Beard Date: September 29, 2011, 2:22 pm
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Building, building, and more building.
Forget about FA moves until the internal development of talent
reaches the point that a move can reasonably be expected to put
the team over the top.
We are miles away from that at the moment.
#Post#: 35636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: brjones Date: September 29, 2011, 2:24 pm
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As frustrating as Marmol is, I think he still has value in the
right trade. He's not going to get two legitimate starting
pitching prospects anymore like Mike Adams did at midseason
(after the Cubs told the Rangers they didn't have interest in
trading Marmol...ugh). But his name still has value, and it's
not out of the question that he could be part of a deal for a
pretty good player with a similar not-great contract. That's
why I brought up the Marlins...if Nunez/Oviedo can't come back,
then something like Marmol, Zambrano+money, and a couple of
prospects/younger players (Colvin and a prospect?) might
interest them for Nolasco and Morrison (if they really are
interested in moving Nolasco).
I think there are also situations to exploit this offseason in
trades, and I hope the Cubs take advantage of them. With the
Dodgers' and Mets' money problems, it's very possible Ethier or
Wright could become available for less than their full value.
With the epic Braves and Red Sox collapses, who knows what they
might be able to be convinced to do? I mentioned it the other
day and I think it's even more likely now...the Braves are going
to want to add a bat, LF is the obvious place to do it, and
Prado (in his second year of arbitration) might be expendable
for not that much in return. He's far from perfect at third
base, but far better than any non-Ramirez free agents.
I really wish we had a better idea of what Castillo and
Clevenger could do at the major league level. It seems like
they could end up as John Buck and Koyie Hill, which would mean
the Cubs would have one decent backup and one AAAA player. Or,
they could turn out to be Ramon Hernandez and Gregg Zaun, which
would make Soto very expendable. It's unfortunate the Cubs have
been so stuck on Koyie Hill the last two years.
#Post#: 35639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: Clarkaddison Date: September 29, 2011, 2:41 pm
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Apparently the pitchers love throwing to Hill. He was
Dempster's personal catcher much of the year. However, with
Castillo and Clevenger ready to move up, he will probably end up
as a farm system instructor.
#Post#: 35666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: AZSteve Date: September 29, 2011, 6:23 pm
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I for one am over <i> THE</i> Hill....
#Post#: 35712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '12
By: buff Date: September 30, 2011, 7:23 am
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Terry Francona out in Boston. Can't believe he is getting the
shaft. Really hope he waits for the cubs to come calling.
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