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#Post#: 34996--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Cactus
Date: September 26, 2011, 12:52 am
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Darwin Barney has a higher OPS than Tony Campana, Koyie Hill,
and Tyler Colvin. He'd be a good backup for SS and 2B in 2012.
#Post#: 34999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Ron
Date: September 26, 2011, 6:00 am
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I like Darwin Barney a lot. But I would have no problem with
moving him to a backup role if there were someone who was a
genuine all-around upgrade at 2B. I don't see Blake DeWitt as
that, and I am somewhat doubtful about Jeff Baker. The primary
reason is defense, which continues to get short-shrift here when
it comes to evaluating individual players - even though just
about everyone at one point or another complains about the Cubs'
miserable defense. Baker looks better than he is because he
plays primarily against LH pitching (there is a 220 point
difference in his OPS between RH and LF). I'm skeptical about
him as a full-time 2B.
I suspect that the only way the Cubs are likely to find a better
2B for next season is from outside, which would mean spending
money on a free agent (are there any attractive ones?) or
spending human capital in a trade. I don't see that as a
priority, but if there is some special opportunity, great.
Maybe LeMahieu or Flaherty would be legitimate options, but I
don't see either displacing Barney at the beginning of the year
- maybe later if one or both develop.
I agree that Barney doesn't deserve the grief he gets here. If
there is someone genuinely better to replace him, fine. But in
my book there is not anyone who clearly is at this time and
there are other places the Cubs need to improve offensively AND
defensively.
#Post#: 35000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Ron
Date: September 26, 2011, 6:06 am
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--- Quote from: Reb link ---
>
> If I were the new GM, I would market Barney as a SS in a
package and see what kind of interest there may be around MLB.
>
> Barney's value is as a SS. As a SS, I think he is a regular
player in the majors for some organizations.
>
> The median team OPS (not average) at SS in the NL this season
is about .670. (2B is .695). Barney's OPS is .670.
>
> SS defense is more important than 2B defense, of course, and
Barney is a legit defensive SS. Also, 2B calls for a bit more
extra base punch offensively, which Barney lacks.
>
> [quote author=Reb link=topic=57.msg34958#msg34958
date=1316998978]
> If I were the new GM, I would market Barney as a SS in a
package and see what kind of interest there may be around MLB.
>
> Barney's value is as a SS. As a SS, I think he is a regular
player in the majors for some organizations.
>
> The median team OPS (not average) at SS in the NL this season
is about .670. (2B is .695). Barney's OPS is .670.
>
> SS defense is more important than 2B defense, of course, and
Barney is a legit defensive SS. Also, 2B calls for a bit more
extra base punch offensively, which Barney lacks.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
My question for Reb is, if it's fine having a Barney at SS if
you have a good offensive 2B, why isn't it fine having Barney at
2B when you have someone with Castro's offense at SS?
#Post#: 35024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: September 26, 2011, 9:33 am
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--- Quote from: ben link ---
>
> Ok, Jes, you have your opinion and i'll continue with mine:
Epstein represented a HUGE difference - and thought VERY
differently - for the Red Sox in 2003...and that's a KEY reason
the Red Sox got VERY different results than they had int he
past.
>
> While sabermetrics certainly isn't exactly ground-breaking
today, I'll continue to hope our new baseball leadership uses
sabermetrics far better than predecessors in the Cub front
office and that our new leadership does otherwise think
differently and better than in the past.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ben, I also hope the new Cub GM appreciates and uses sabermetric
approaches and analysis more than Hendry, but other than that,
which is no longer very "different" thinking from the rest of
baseball, I still don't know what "different thinking" you are
talking about.... nor, does it appear, do you.
You also appear not to dispute my point that "different
thinking" does not always produce different results, and that
different results can in fact result from the very same
thinking, just with better execution.
#Post#: 35026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: rjzebra
Date: September 26, 2011, 9:36 am
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This board is in a bigger slump than the Cubs. Critical of
Barney and not one mention of Byrd. Barney looks like Joe
DiMaggio compared to Byrd.
#Post#: 35028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: craig
Date: September 26, 2011, 9:39 am
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--- Quote from: Ron link ---
>
> My question for Reb is, if it's fine having a Barney at SS if
you have a good offensive 2B, why isn't it fine having Barney at
2B when you have someone with Castro's offense at SS?
>
--- End Quote ---
That would be fine. Just like, as you and many others have
argued, having Barney remain as an average 2B who bats
back-of-the-order is fine. And the point has also been made
often that when you've got below-average players, worrying about
upgrading on the average players seems somewhat mixed up.
You can win championships with fine, average players batting 8th
and playing supporting roles.
I think a problem with the Cubs is simply that we have so many
guys who can be average in a good year, but also have the chance
to be significantly below-average in an off year or if impacted
by slump or injury. Barney may be .670 this year. It's
possible he'll get a little better in future; it's perhaps more
likely that some slump or whatever might cause him to drop below
that, as has been his case for the last five months.
And we don't have enough guys with a chance to be significantly
above average. Aram, Castro, and Garza are the three guys who
have the capacity to be significantly above average. You can
win 75 games with a lot of average, fine, supporting-cast type
players. But the really good teams have players who are enough
superior to average that they help pull the whole team above the
average.
I think we're short on team-lifting stars, and the ones who are
lifting maybe aren't great enough to lift the overall team far
enough. Castro is a lifter, and he's got a chance to become a
really good lifter. But overall, he's not special enough yet.
If our three lifters are Castro, Aram, and Garza, other teams
have as many or more stars who are as good or better. We've got
Castro and Aram, St. Louis has Pujols and Holliday and Berkman
this year. We've got Castro and Aram, Milwaukee has Braun and
Fielder. Our stars aren't great enough to pull us away. And
neither are our fine Barneys advantageous enough to pull us away
from the average/fine support players that Milwaukee, St. Louis,
Cinci, Atlanta, San Fran, Arizona, and Philadelphia have.
It's not Barney's fault that he's not lifting us. But somehow
we need to get more players that give us advantage.
And I'm with you, Ron, I don't see how or where we're going to
get an advantage player that lifts us beyond what Barney can do.
#Post#: 35046--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Cubsin
Date: September 26, 2011, 11:49 am
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Two points not yet mentioned. Looking at the long history of
baseball, it occurs to me there's a chance that Barney might
actually improve on his rookie year stats at some point in the
future.
Secondly, I haven't bashed Byrd's performance this year because
he was hit in the face with a pitched ball. I think he's doing
his best to play through it, even though the results haven't
been very good.
#Post#: 35049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Clarkaddison
Date: September 26, 2011, 11:55 am
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I think the problem is that everybody looks at Barney as Theriot
lite. The difference is Theriot was a second baseman playing
shortstop. Barney is a shortstop playing second base. Better
speed, better range, more athleticism.
He needs to take more walks, but otherwise he's a contact hitter
and hits well with men on base. Good qualities for a #2 hitter.
Barney is the least of the Cubs' problems going into 2012. Two
or three starting pitchers, a first and third baseman, a closer,
and a new outfield are far more pressing issues.
Oh yes, a manager and a coaching staff would help too.
#Post#: 35051--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: ben
Date: September 26, 2011, 12:02 pm
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Jes, better results can result from better execution of the
approach (rather than thinking differently).
And better execution can result from thinking differently (and
better) about the approach.
As for Barney, put me in the camp that thinks the kid should get
bigger and stronger, and may further improve. To me, he's
among the least of Cub concerns, particularly with the hiring of
the next head of baseball operations imminent.
If we hire the right person, Barney will either improve quite a
bit or be replaced...and that will be true for the vast majority
of roster spots!
#Post#: 35052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Reb
Date: September 26, 2011, 12:20 pm
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Barney is not really a problem--he's basically close to average
at his position. Obviously, Cubs have more pressing needs right
now than replacing close-to-average players who are not a drag
on the payroll.
My thought on trading Barney is based on Cubs playing him out of
position. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to play a player
out of position, period, in terms of value, when his natural
position is more of a prime position. Another club who needs
him at the position where he has optimal value (SS) might offer
a nice return, especially in a package.
This thought is also based on the notion that Barney is not a
long-term solution at 2B. I want more offense out of that
position in the long term. A .670 OPS guy is not my idea of a 2B
for the next five years. One more season, fine, given the other
needs to address but not long term.
So, here's a guy who's a legit SS with a lot of good intangibles
and he should play SS--which he will never do as a Cub. So, I
say look to trade him now, if possible, as his reputation around
MLB is pretty good and some may project significant improvement
for him ((which personally I think is unlikely). Of course, if
you don't get a good offer--keep him. But, I suspect there may
be a good offer out there for a creative new Cubs GM with a
plan.
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