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#Post#: 34810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Deeg
Date: September 25, 2011, 2:12 pm
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Barney could weigh 80 pounds or 320, it wouldn't matter - he's
not an everyday player. Hopefully whoever our new GM and field
manager are, they'll recognize that.
#Post#: 34817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Cubsin
Date: September 25, 2011, 2:48 pm
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With all the high-priced lardasses on this team, I'm continually
surprised by the apparent dislike for Barney. While he will
never be an All-Star, he's a good defensive 2B, plays hard, runs
well and hits a little bit. More walks and more extra-base hits
would make him a more valuable player, of course. But it's hard
to argue that DeWitt or Baker would be better than Barney at 2B.
#Post#: 34828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: September 25, 2011, 3:19 pm
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--- Quote from: StrikeZone link ---
>
> It's amazing that guys that have actual Major League starter's
talent don't seem to wear down. Starlin Castro has been better
in the second half both of his seasons.
>
--- End Quote ---
Without commenting on the main point of the post, Castro is in
the extreme elite of players, and comparing other players to him
as a yardstick is absurd.
#Post#: 34844--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: brjones
Date: September 25, 2011, 3:33 pm
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I don't dislike Barney. I can't speak for StrikeZone or Deeg,
but I don't think they dislike him either. He has just
undeniably been a well below average hitter who doesn't do
anything else well enough to make up for his lack of bat. He
has hit .278/.313/.358 (including a brutal .269/.307/.339 line
in 452 PA since May 1), which is in Neifi territory. The only
way a winning team can afford to carry someone like that is if
the rest of the lineup is good enough to pick up the slack...and
that obviously does not describe the Cubs.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the only reason
anyone wants Barney as an everyday player is because it feels
good to see players come out of the Cubs minor league system.
If the Cubs had picked him up as a free agent or in a trade,
he'd be about as popular as Blake DeWitt.
#Post#: 34851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: September 25, 2011, 3:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ben link ---
>
> Jes, the Boston turnaround roughly coincided with their
"different thinking" re running the franchise...e.g. bringing in
a VERY young guy as GM (Epstein) and moving toward a VERY
sabermetrics-friendly approach. Without question, there were
some other items lining up, such as some good players on the
team and a farm system with guys like Henley Ramirez who enabled
the Beckett trade, that allowed Epstein to make some moves.
>
> I'll defer to East on the above issue as he follows the Red
Sox much more closely than I. I'm pleased Ricketts seems to be
benchmarking the Red Sox, perhaps among other organizations.
Let's hope the spending continues.
>
> I'm uncertain about the true impact of day games and "legacy
of losing" etc., and I certainly hope we build a team of
mentally-tough dudes who are not the least bit impacted by such.
Still, it's hard for me to believe the above factors don't make
it a bit tougher for the Cubs to succeed. On the other hand, i
believe that extra burden should be more than offset by being a
large-market team that spends as a large-market team. I'll
hope the new baseball leadership can prove that's true.
>
--- End Quote ---
I can accept the fact that East, or someone else might have a
more complete knowledge of the "better ideas," but the only
thing you seem to mention about is, " bringing in a VERY young
guy as GM (Epstein) and moving toward a VERY
sabermetrics-friendly approach," and yet YOU were the one who
wrote about Boston becoming a winning team because of "thinking
differently"... and a young GM is not exactly an "idea," and at
this point most teams would seem to have adopted a
"sabermetrics-friendly approach."
The Red Sox may well have executed better than other teams, or
may have had a nice run of luck, but neither of those constitute
"thinking differently."
You were the one who mentioned needing to "think differently"
and who wrote that "Red Sox did that in order to gain a
different outcome." I simply thought you might be able to offer
some examples of the different thinking you mentioned.... since
you mentioned it.
#Post#: 34858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: September 25, 2011, 3:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ben link ---
>
> Interesting point by Cubsin that, historically, the Cubs have
employed more established veterans who may wilt a bit more in
the heat.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've heard that before, and even said it myself.... but is it
true?
Is there anyplace to find the average age of a team's players,
compared to the league? Position players/starters/overall
roster/and having the age average weighted to reflect innings
played?
#Post#: 34900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Deeg
Date: September 25, 2011, 5:32 pm
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I don't dislike Barney either - I just don't think he's done
anything anywhere in his career, minors or majors, to indicate
he can produce enough to play everyday. And I don't think it's
at all difficult to argue Baker or DeWitt would be better - I
think it's patently obvious they would be, mediocre as they are.
And I certainly want to find out if Flaherty or Lemahieu can be
better.
#Post#: 34948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: September 25, 2011, 7:13 pm
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Barney is a perfectly tolerable, low cost placeholder for a team
which is rebuilding.
He appears to have the right attitude and will help develop the
clubhouse culture needed to win, even if he doesn't provide the
on the field play required to do that.
But so long as the rest of the roster is not close to being
playoff caliber, and he is cheap, and he certainly won't be
blocking anyone coming up thru the farm who appears to be a real
prospect, he's not at all a bad guy to have around.
Should the Cubs try to find someone better?
Sure. There are 7 position players who take the field on any
day who the Cubs need to be looking to replace with someone who
either is better or who has a reasonable prospect of being
better in 2014 and beyond than the player the Cubs now have at
that position will be by then. But as long as he is cheap and
plays the game right, even if not well, until this team becomes
competitive, the attention in finding better players might be
better focused on some of the other positions.
#Post#: 34950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: StrikeZone
Date: September 25, 2011, 7:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Cubsin link ---
>
> With all the high-priced lardasses on this team, I'm
continually surprised by the apparent dislike for Barney. While
he will never be an All-Star, he's a good defensive 2B, plays
hard, runs well and hits a little bit. More walks and more
extra-base hits would make him a more valuable player, of
course. But it's hard to argue that DeWitt or Baker would be
better than Barney at 2B.
>
--- End Quote ---
What "high-priced lardasses" are you talking about? Clearly,
Alfonso Soriano is high-priced but no one could mistake him for
a lardass. He's not great for sure but he's out-OPSing Barney
by .080 this season.
Aramis Ramirez is certainly well paid but he's the Cubs best
hitter and I don't think anyone would complain about his
offensive production.
Carlos Pena is making pretty big money but he's producing, too.
Is Barney and his wet noodle bat to be tolerated because he
"plays hard, runs well" and is a cheap but home-grown player?
There's nothing wrong with a guy like Barney on the roster but
only as a backup infielder who is the 24th or 25th man on the
roster. I think that everyone gets that he's a gritty little
player that usually has a dirty uniform at the end of the day
but the guy isn't good enough to be a starter on a team that has
such trouble scoring. He just has too little power and doesn't
walk enough to justify his slightly above average glove.
People can make all the excuses they want to for him -- he's
worn down because he's never played a season this long, he's
lost 15 pounds, he's worried about his wife and newborn baby,
he's got blisters on his fingers, he's sad because REM broke up,
whatever.
The dude isn't good enough to go into 2012 as the starting
second baseman.
The Cubs have some players in the system that Deeg mentioned
that would probably be better with the bat. There are usually
non-tendered free agents every winter that are available for
nothing that would be better, too.
I think it would be a mistake for the Cubs to not look to
upgrade second base.
No one is saying that Barney should be beaten about the head and
shoulders or released. Some of us have merely questioned the
wisdom of counting on him as the starting second baseman next
year. Br even pointed out his Neifi-like numbers since May and
some people still want him to play every day, even in the face
of the Cubs offensive struggles.
I don't understand why anyone would want Barney as the starter
next year, unless the Cubs could upgrade at least two other
spots in the lineup.
#Post#: 34958--------------------------------------------------
Re: Next GM for the Cubs
DIR By: Reb
Date: September 25, 2011, 8:02 pm
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If I were the new GM, I would market Barney as a SS in a package
and see what kind of interest there may be around MLB.
Barney's value is as a SS. As a SS, I think he is a regular
player in the majors for some organizations.
The median team OPS (not average) at SS in the NL this season is
about .670. (2B is .695). Barney's OPS is .670.
SS defense is more important than 2B defense, of course, and
Barney is a legit defensive SS. Also, 2B calls for a bit more
extra base punch offensively, which Barney lacks.
And, Barney has a lot of "traditional" intangible good qualities
that some GMs value more than some other GMs. And, he's non-arb
and inexpensive. So, I would look to package him with some
other talent and see what may be available out there to upgrade.
Maybe even at 2B for a club looking for a SS. Package him with
Wells or Coleman or Russell or Junior Lake or Flaherty or maybe
somebody better and see what's out there.
Hendry would have been very unlikely to do that, but maybe the
new GM might.
You hear lot of good things about Barney from some of the
baseball media and I'll bet there are some GMs out there who
really like him.
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