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#Post#: 346845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: craig
Date: June 8, 2018, 11:15 pm
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--- Quote from: Ron link ---
>
> Here is the link:
HTML https://theathletic.com/384762/2018/06/07/an-inside-look-at-how-the-cubs-2018-draft-class-came-together/
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, Ron. Really loved that article, some great insights
into the Cubs process and thinking, both about several of the
players and just how they process things.
Dorey's comments about the HS outfielders I thought were
helpful, and encouraging. Pretty evident they wanted players
not pitchers, and to take shots at potential-impact ceiling
guys; and in order to have a shot, they had to choose to be
willing to take the necessary associated risk with HS prospects.
Like, all that is obvious.
But I think knowing that and targeting that demographic going
in, I have to believe their research was as exhaustive as
possible. There must certainly have been other HS guys who were
signable in the $1-1.5 range. But they did exhaustive research,
and these were the two they targeted and willingly went
over-slot to get. We'll see of course, and there's only so much
research you can do with video games and small-season sampling
against HS pitching; particularly for Roederer whose season was
further abbreviated by injury.
But I'm pretty comfortable that the decision-making was
thorough, thoughtful, well-reasoned, and optimally informed.
I admit I'm also somewhat hopeful in that the Cubs have done
well with Gleyber, Eloy, and Amaya. Not perfect, of course
(Sierra was perhaps of the same perceived-high-ceiling profile
as Davis and Roederer, and was likewise out of sync from media
rankings, unlike Gleyber and Eloy.) But I'm really hopeful for
those two picks, that in three years one or both will look like
guys who could have been quality first-round values had they
gone to college and re-entered the draft 3 years from now.
#Post#: 346849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: guest61
Date: June 8, 2018, 11:45 pm
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Let somebody else forgive him Curt.
At 10 or 11 you might have a few questions but not at 15.
What Heimlich did is the equivalent of a Freshman and a 1st
grader.
#Post#: 346850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: June 8, 2018, 11:48 pm
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I guess what I'm failing to comprehend is exactly what is it
that he did? If he actually tried to have sex, yeah, much
harder to forgive.
#Post#: 346851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: JR
Date: June 9, 2018, 12:01 am
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--- Quote ---
> At what point do you forgive a 15 year old?
HTML http://www.espn.com/college-sports/baseball/story/_/id/23736321/oregon-state-pitcher-luke-heimlich-gets-wins-ncaa-super-regional-opener-versus-minnesota
--- End Quote ---
From what little I've read of it, probably one of the biggest
problems for forgiving him is he's not willing to take
accountability for it. He still seems to act like he didn't do
anything wrong and just got really poor legal advice. If he
really didn't do anything, somebody really did him wrong to
advise him to take a course where he'd have to register as a sex
offender at 15. I'm sure any lawyer or parent would realize the
serious life altering ramifications that would come from him
registering as a sex offender that early in life, but that's the
course that was taken regardless. From my far away distance on
it, I just have a hard time believing he didn't do something
that at least crossed a very serious line.
I'd also imagine as much as major league teams are looking for
pitching and as much background work goes into evaluating what
these kids are like off the field, if there was any possible way
to justify adding him to a major league organization, someone
would have done it. Whatever background work these teams are
doing must not be turning out very well him for at all so far.
I'm like you, though, you'd hate to see someone not being given
a chance to make up for a genuinely terrible thing at age 15 if
they've gotten their life back together and changed their ways.
He must not be giving teams much of a reason to do that, though.
#Post#: 346853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: guest61
Date: June 9, 2018, 3:11 am
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Word is he did what he did to his brothers daughter.
The brother and wife divorced over it and the little girls
mother hasnt forgiven him in any way and hopes he never gets to
play professionally.
#Post#: 346856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: June 9, 2018, 7:46 am
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Those convicted of crimes, AND who unquestionably actually did
exactly as they were convicted of, quite often later insist they
did not actually do what they were convicted of. This is true
even when the conviction is a result of a confession and a
guilty plea.
This happens so often that it is perfectly reasonable and
rational to ignore and dismiss the claims of innocence.
At the same time, there ARE some people who are convicted
without having done what they are convicted of. There ARE some
who confess to charges for conduct they never actually engaged
in (though I understand no confession is involved here). And
there ARE some who plead guilty and accept sentences even when
they did not do as charged, something which most often happens
when they enter into a plea agreement far more favorable than
what they faced the risk of happening if the case went to trial.
In this guy's case, if the guilty plea meant being treated as a
juvenile and not doing any prison time, and having the records
sealed (or believing they would be), even if it also meant
registering as a sex offender, that might have quite reasonably
been more attractive than going to trial as an adult and being
imprisoned for the next ten years, even if the prospect of
conviction was no more than ten percent.
When deciding whether to accept a guilty plea, the real question
is not whether you did as charged, but the likely sentence if
convicted discounted by the likelihood of conviction.
In the case of the major league teams, the question would seem
less likely whether he did or did not do as he pled guilty to,
or whether he does or does not "deserve" a second chance. The
question likely was primarily one of how the public would react
to the news of his past.... and absent the girl involved coming
forward and insisting that the charges were all a crock and that
he really never did anything and that her mother just made shit
up, I suspect GMs throughout the league made the logical
decisions.
#Post#: 346857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: June 9, 2018, 7:51 am
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There is one other factor that disturbs me. His case was
sealed. Somebody, perhaps the girl's mother, tipped off the
press who chose to break the story just before last year's
draft. If his life is ruined, someone else needs to pay too.
JR, not sure on the accountability thing. When confronted, he
admitted it and plead guilty. I realize now he's claiming poor
legal advice and that he really didn't do anything, but I think
he has met the court's demands.
NFL, MLB, NBA, we allow thugs, murderers, wife beaters,
druggies, and drunks, guys who run prostitutes and young women,
but don't do anything at age 15?
Just not sure the punishment fits the crime here. Short leash?
For sure. Any hint of deviant behavior and you're toast. But
banishment for something at 15?
#Post#: 346867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: DelMarFan
Date: June 9, 2018, 11:17 am
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"Guilty in the Eyes of Social Media," and so no one will take a
chance on him.
#Post#: 346873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: June 9, 2018, 1:49 pm
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--- Quote from: DelMarFan link ---
>
> "Guilty in the Eyes of Social Media," and so no one will take
a chance on him.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn’t he also guilty in the eyes of the court? Pleading guilty
to have sexual contact with a 6 year girl would be pretty
horrible advise for adults to give a kid at 15 who was likely
getting recruited by colleges for baseball at that point in his
life. Pleading guilty and avoiding the publicity of a trail
would seem like a great idea for an athlete with professional
ambitions. As far as the NFL goes didn’t a Packers TE career get
ended because he touched a high school girl?
#Post#: 346874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs Draft 2018
DIR By: davep
Date: June 9, 2018, 2:04 pm
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I am old enough to remember when juvenile court records were NOT
sealed, and the ongoing justification for doing so. Quite
simply put, the belief was that a mistake by a teenager should
not result in the destruction of his entire life. I found that
hard to dispute back then, and feel that it is still valid
today.
Much of the Christian religion (at least MY view of MY Christian
religion) is based upon the concept of redemption. "Go and sin
no more" was the directive. Certainly, if this kid was guilty
of continuing or recommitting the offense, his punishment should
continue. But in the absence of that, it is time for EVERYONE
to let it go.
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