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#Post#: 298070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: craig
Date: November 23, 2016, 10:21 am
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yeah, that's a good landscape, deeg. The "Complementary" LH guy
isn't going to be a guy who commands $12/year in contract, or
Eloy or Soler in trade. "Complementary" to me suggests a
support player.
None are perfect examples, but I'm thinking more of guys in the
type of class like David DeJesus was; or Chris Denorfia; or a
CF-version of like Chris Coghlan; or Tom Goodwin or Damon Buford
or Gary Matthews Jr. scale guys back during the Corey Patterson
era; maybe a CF-version of LaStella. Maybe if somebody else had
a LH-equivalent of Szczur.
*None of those guys is at all a correct match, I'm just thinking
that kind of caliber player with those kinds of price tags.
* The kind of guy you could sign in free agency for $6/1 or
less, or $10/2 or less.
*The kind of guy you could reasonably get in trade in exchange
for maybe a Candelario or Happ type guy, or less; maybe
considerably less. Maybe for Justin Grimm, or Justin Grimm plus
Galindo, or something like that.
*Not a pickup that will significantly move the budget dial even
short term, much less long-term if it's a salaried guy.
*Not a pickup that will significantly impact the farm depth, if
it's a young guy acquired in trade.
#Post#: 298071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Deeg
Date: November 23, 2016, 10:28 am
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Which is all why I don't get the Gardner speculation. Even if
you could get the guy as a straight salary dump, are you going
to pay Gardner that much to play that role? Especially when he
hasn't even been playing CF?
#Post#: 298072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: craig
Date: November 23, 2016, 10:41 am
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--- Quote from: Deeg link ---
> ...Honestly, I think they'll pick up a LH who can play a
decent CF and pencil in that guy and Almora to each get 30-40
starts, with Heyward getting the rest. And if injuries take a
toll and/or one of the CF performs well above expectations, you
adjust the numbers.
--- End Quote ---
deeg, I agree that's as good a guess as any, given the
uncertainties about how things play out. Again, a 40-start guy
isn't going to cost a ton. In reality, of course, we have no
idea how guys will perform (Almora, Heyward, complementary,
Soler, Baez, Zobrist.) And we have no idea whether or not Soler
will be back. So, for now it's fun to project, but actual
distribution will depend on actual production. The beauty of
that is that Maddon will have lots of pieces with which he can
improvise and adjust based on who's hitting and who isn't.
--- Quote from: Deeg link ---
>
> If you have a full platoon in CF, you still have one of
Zobrist or Baez on the bench every day one of the true regulars
isn't getting a rest. I don't see that happening....
--- End Quote ---
deeg, I actually don't have much trouble seeing that happening.
If you have 8 primary guys for 7 non-CF positions, I don't see
any reason why Maddon will have any issue having 1/8 of them not
playing every day.
*For rest-sake alone, no problem.
*Very likely that at any given time, 1/8 of those main guys will
be hurt. Having 1/8 of your players on the DL at any moment is
not a high ratio, I wouldn't think.
*Often there are guys who aren't DL'd, but are still dinged a
little bit. Don't necessarily need 15 days off, but a couple of
days maybe yes?
*Obviously we've got some guys who may do well to get some
matchup rests. For example, letting Heyward sit against a
number of lefties might be helpful for him?
So, I think it's well constructed to have at least 8
good-enough-to-be-primary-regulars available for 7 positions.
As you say, the capacity to slide Heyward over to center can
further help. Then you can get all 8 in there.
I'm still hoping that Soler will emerge as
good-enough-to-be-primary-regular guy, and will hit so well that
Maddon will WANT to have him in the lineup fairly often. If
Soler became guy 9, sharing 7 spots between 9 guys might get
more tight. But again, if Heyward shifted to center
semi-regularly, it's good.
Heyward is .809-OPS career vs RHP. It would be super fun to
have a lineup with .800+ Heyward in center, moved there in part
because Soler was hitting so well that Maddon routinely wanted
to have at least 2 of Schwarber/Soler/Zobrist in the corners.
Could be a great-hitting outfield.
#Post#: 298073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Deeg
Date: November 23, 2016, 10:55 am
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It's difficult for me to see Soler having much of a role with
the Cubs next season. His defense and baserunning is mediocre
at best. He's injury-prone. He clearly doesn't have Joe's
trust. He seems lacking the baseball IQ Joe treasures so much.
He has great talent, but the Cubs have a lot of guys with talent
who've actually produced. The only reason I think they'd keep
him is because his value is at an all-time low, but absent a lot
of injuries I don't see him having a big impact.
#Post#: 298074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: davep
Date: November 23, 2016, 10:58 am
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I don't understand the controversy. I believe that Craig has it
correct. The sense I get from the front office comments is that
they are thinking of getting a part time left handed center
fielder to compliment Almora. There is no way, in my opinion,
they will be willing to give up what would be necessary to get
Inciarte, merely to play him part time. The same would apply to
a free agent. If they wanted someone to play center field full
time for the next couple of years, they wouldn't have let Fowler
go. The fact that they DID let him go would indicate to me that
they both want and expect Almora to fill that roll in years to
come.
They seem to be looking for a cheap left hander to take some at
bats against tough right handed pitchers. Inciarte or someone
of that caliber doesn't seem to fit the bill.
#Post#: 298075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Playtwo
Date: November 23, 2016, 11:01 am
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I leave Heyward in RF where he knows he's having high value
defensively and doesn't have added pressure of having to produce
offensively in order to contribute. If you don't resign Fowler,
give Almora a chance to show what he can do as an everyday
player.
#Post#: 298078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: craig
Date: November 23, 2016, 11:28 am
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--- Quote from: Playtwo link ---
>
> I leave Heyward in RF where he knows he's having high value
defensively and doesn't have added pressure of having to produce
offensively in order to contribute. If you don't resign Fowler,
give Almora a chance to show what he can do as an everyday
player.
--- End Quote ---
Maybe the same might apply by using him in center? If
Schwarber/Zobrist/Soler are mashing in right and left, and the
team is scoring runs steadily, might that not take offensive
pressure off? Whereas if Almora/Damon-Buford are hitting .630
in CF, and the team is struggling to score runs, might that not
put more pressure on RF Heyward to contribute offensively, as
expected from a RF and a $180 contract?
But, I'm guessing Hewyard's hitting won't be impacted by RF vs
CF. He's a competitor and he wants to do well; I expect he'll
be equally internally-motivated to contribute offensively
regardless of which defensive spot he's in.
#Post#: 298079--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Deeg
Date: November 23, 2016, 11:35 am
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I think there's less pressure for Heyward to produce offensively
in CF than RF. Not that it's much of a difference either way.
#Post#: 298081--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Playtwo
Date: November 23, 2016, 11:39 am
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He's more impactful defensively in RF. Knowing that he is
making an important defensive contribution should make it easier
for him to deal with offensive frustration and ultimately to
break through offensively. JMO.
#Post#: 298082--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions
Edition 👑👑👑
DIR By: Deeg
Date: November 23, 2016, 11:59 am
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He's more impactful defensively in RF, but RF is expected to be
more impactful offensively. And Heyward is a good CF - not
unicorn good like in right, but good. Better than Fowler,
certainly. I just don't see that as a big psychological factor
for him either way.
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