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#Post#: 250770--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Deeg Date: October 24, 2015, 2:33 pm
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It's easy to fall in love with what you have to the point where
you pass on moves you shouldn't pass on. Sabean knew that there
would be times he would have to deal some of the elite young
arms he drafted and developed for other pieces. I don't think
anyone would argue with the Giants track record these last
several years.
Obviously, no one is going to deny Theo has done a great job
bringing all this amazing offensive talent into the
organization. It's a tremendous asset. But you have to be
willing to spend some of your assets if the opportunity to
improve your team presents itself.
#Post#: 250771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Reb Date: October 24, 2015, 2:34 pm
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Yeah, Indians really look like a match for Cubs this off-season.
Read few weeks ago that, if deal a starting pitcher, they much
prefer trading Salazar rather than Carrasco to get a bat.
Wittenmyer mentioned Cubs interest in Lonnie Chisenhall recently
too. Chisenhall is interesting. Indians optioned him to
minors, brought him back and put him in RF, and he became a
fantastically superb defensive RFer all of a sudden. Kind of
shocked everybody. Has some offensive potential: .770 OPS in
533 PAs in 2014. Maybe a Coghlan-type with superb corner OF
defense. That is valuable.
Salazar has FIVE more years of control. Age 26 all of next
season. Flamethrower. Works at 95 with good change-up. 380 Ks
in 347 career innings. 3.69 K/BB ratio.
Can be erratic with command. Had TJ almost exactly 5 years ago.
Still, a lot to like.
Indians will want Soler in a Salazar deal. Maybe you can get
Chisenhall too in a multi-player package.
Question: what do Cubs really think of Soler? Obviously,
everybody knows has huge offensive upside. But, do Cubs think
internally that Soler has the make-up to get close to his
upside?
For me, I think maybe they don't. Soler is only player all
season that I recall Maddon being critical about publicly. At
one of post-game pressers, Maddon asked whether Soler needed
more work from coaches on his defense. Think Maddon maybe
caught a bit off-guard with reference to his coaches (Maddon
always says great things about his coaches) and said coaches had
been working with Soler from early spring training on improving
his defense and hasn't happened yet. Sounded exasperated to me,
as in, don't know what else we can do with this guy (my words,
not his). Just seems like if a player is not very coachable in
one aspect of the game, maybe a worry that won't get much better
in other aspects of game too.
Just speculating but wonder about their commitment to Soler.
Guess we'll see if they move him or not. If don't move him,
there's your answer perhaps. Not advocating one way or the
other--but think depends on Cubs internal assessment of the guy
and we don't know that one way or the other either. Will be
interesting. Obviously, a potential disaster trading Soler but
gotta give something good to get something good.
Kind of doubt Indians that keen on Baez (or Castro). They are
set in middle infield and could be interested in Baez as a 3B
but likely not as appealing to Indians as Soler. Indians need
power in their lineup.
#Post#: 250772--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Playtwo Date: October 24, 2015, 2:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Reb. From what I've read, hip labrum surgery requires a
prolonged rehab process but there is a good chance Span will be
ready to go by Spring training.
#Post#: 250776--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Playtwo Date: October 24, 2015, 2:41 pm
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Soler has a great arm, but lacks good defensive instincts. Some
of that will improve with more game experience. His bat has the
potential to be outstanding. He's a keeper, IMO.
#Post#: 250778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Reb Date: October 24, 2015, 2:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Deeg link=topic=376.msg250770#msg250770
date=1445715203]
It's easy to fall in love with what you have to the point where
you pass on moves you shouldn't pass on. Sabean knew that there
would be times he would have to deal some of the elite young
arms he drafted and developed for other pieces. I don't think
anyone would argue with the Giants track record these last
several years.
Obviously, no one is going to deny Theo has done a great job
bringing all this amazing offensive talent into the
organization. It's a tremendous asset. But you have to be
willing to spend some of your assets if the opportunity to
improve your team presents itself.
[/quote]
Before the days of free agency and all the player movement from
club-to-club we see these days, it was way more common for clubs
to stand pat after a good season. Happened frequently...and
often not a very good idea. Bad organizations tended to do
that. Yankees had their pipeline from KC and developed players
but most other clubs not so much. Lots of mistakes in standing
pat.
Think lesson is that always have to be going forward and making
significant moves. All the cutting edge businesses do that,
right? Sit still and die. Theo knows that. Can't just sit and
cocoon with your prospects. Yes, there is a core of guys and
you ride with those guys but......time to get busy and get
better for 2016. Obviously, Theo and Hoyer are going to do that
going forward.
#Post#: 250780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: craig Date: October 24, 2015, 2:43 pm
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[quote author=CUBluejays link=topic=376.msg250759#msg250759
date=1445709161]
..Craig I'm not sure how much work the bullpen will need. You
have Richards/Wood under control for 1 more year.
Rondon/Strop/Grimm as high leverage guys. Edwards will likely
get a chance. Rameriez and Turner will be in the mix. The Cubs
seem to like Cahill as well, so maybe you offer him a chance at
the fifth starter job with the intention of putting him in the
bull pen. I would love to see a high leverage lefty like McGee,
but it is more of a bonus than need. [/quote]
Good points. Hoyer may not see this as a priority area at all.
They won 97 games with the existing pen, they should have most
of the same cast back (Cahill and Motte are the only FA's?), and
Ramierez or CJ Edwards might potentially improve it further.
So, it's not urgent.
Still, I'm a bit nervous about being able to sustain. Grimm was
terrific, but so wild that Maddon distrusted him behind the
street FA guys in October. Strop has always been wild. Cahill
might be gone or be non-good. So, it could slip away pretty
quickly. Very important that it does not do so, whether with
the same guys or with some adjustment.
A very deep pen does wonders, and enables lots of wins behind
Wada/Hammel/Hendricks type guys. Get 4-6 never-dominant but
often-competitive innings and turn it over ASAP to the bullpen.
Protecting/improving the depth/quality of the bullpen should be
a high priority. Given the control challenges for so many
relievers, though, protecting bullpen excellence is a difficult
thing to do.
#Post#: 250781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: Reb Date: October 24, 2015, 2:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Playtwo link=topic=376.msg250772#msg250772
date=1445715505]
Thanks, Reb. From what I've read, hip labrum surgery requires a
prolonged rehab process but there is a good chance Span will be
ready to go by Spring training.
[/quote]
Hope you're right about that because think a healthy Span is a
good fit for this club. Nats were very pleased with Span after
getting him from Twins. Nice defensive player--significantly
better than Fowler defensively--and good table setter
offensively. Very popular in clubhouse and with Nats fans. When
he went down, Nats never really able to replace him at top of
lineup. Taylor was very good defensively but offense hurt
without Span at top of lineup. As noted, seems doubtful will get
QO--and that's significant for a guy who might be here briefly.
#Post#: 250782--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: CurtOne Date: October 24, 2015, 2:49 pm
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[quote author=FDISK link=topic=376.msg250761#msg250761
date=1445710189]
Okay...but then you just have to out and replace Baez, Soler,
and Hendrick.
Why not just keep Baez, Soler, and Hendrick and go out and buy a
Sonny Gray-lite?
[/quote]Not really. If you have a Gray to go with Arrieta and
Lester, then you need one fair starter (Lackey, Underwood?
Turner? Wood?) one mediocre 5(Hammel? Wood?) Baez' utility
may be replaced by Alcantara (he's still ours) or Zobrist or
keep Herrera. Heyward replaces Soler. Or you limp along with
Coghlan until the trade deadline. And Joey Bats is a FA. A
very expensive one. :) One of the ways some teams like the
Braves, Angels, and Cardinals have shocked the other teams is
trading or signing a free agent for something they already have
a strength in to give themselves more assets.
#Post#: 250784--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: davep Date: October 24, 2015, 2:53 pm
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[quote author=CurtOne link=topic=376.msg250746#msg250746
date=1445701261]
You'd pay him $10m for 4 years fewer control?
[/quote]
I would rather pay him 120 million over three years than have to
pay him 210 million over 7 years. There is substantial danger
that an injury could render him worthless by the 4th year.
#Post#: 250785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '16
By: CurtOne Date: October 24, 2015, 2:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Deeg link=topic=376.msg250770#msg250770
date=1445715203]
It's easy to fall in love with what you have to the point where
you pass on moves you shouldn't pass on. Sabean knew that there
would be times he would have to deal some of the elite young
arms he drafted and developed for other pieces. I don't think
anyone would argue with the Giants track record these last
several years.
Obviously, no one is going to deny Theo has done a great job
bringing all this amazing offensive talent into the
organization. It's a tremendous asset. But you have to be
willing to spend some of your assets if the opportunity to
improve your team presents itself.
[/quote]I agree and that's what I fear I'm hearing from some
posters. They're looking for Nintendo trades. Let's trade
Herrera and Cahill for King Felix! To get the attention of
other GM's you have to tempt them with quality. Would sending
Russell back to Oakland along with Soler for Gray and Burns be a
bad trade? I don't think so. Don't want to see it and half
this board would rip their clothes and dress in sackcloth and
ashes, but if I wasn't a Cub fan and in love with Russell and
Soler, it would probably help both teams.
I think this off season is going to make us all giddy and
depressed at the same time. Roller coaster time is near.
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