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       #Post#: 236513--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: CurtOne
       Date: August 11, 2015, 8:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Nope.  It's where he and 7 other position players add up to the
       most value.   If he catches and his value is 8 and the left
       fielder is a 3, that's 11.  If he plays left and has a value of
       8 and the new catcher is a 2, that's 10.    If our catcher was
       Salvador Perez, Schwarber goes to left, not because Perez is a
       better catcher, but because together they have excellent value.
       If Teagarden is the catcher, uh, no, Schwarber goes behind the
       plate.  Your analysis does not take into consideration that
       unless you're Adam Greenberg, careers are a marathon, not a
       sprint.
       #Post#: 236514--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: grrrrlacher
       Date: August 11, 2015, 8:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: CUBluejays link ---
       >
       > I was only going off the list fangraphs provided if you sort
       by position.
       >
       > A mediocre defensive catcher is worth more than a mediocre
       defensive LF. It is also going to be easier to find an above
       league average offensive LF than a above average offensive
       catcher. There are 4 qualified above average offensive catchers
       this year. Schwarber has work to do with blocking/being
       consistent with his throwing. His framing appears to be
       serviceable. I don't think he is that far off with his catching
       defense. He isn't horrible in LF, but he's never going to have
       the speed to be even average there.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think part of the point is you should look at all OF and not
       just LF.  Because you can stick any OF in LF.  The fact that
       Trout and Hamilton were mainly CF is not the point.  You can
       sign them in FA and play them in LF if you want - you can't play
       them at C.  The fact that Schwarber can play C is the bonus.
       #Post#: 236518--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: Bennett
       Date: August 11, 2015, 9:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Minnesota Twins got it wrong when they left Joe Mauer behind
       the plate for too many years.
       The Houston Astros did the right thing by moving Craig Biggio.
       Since it does not appear that Kyle Schwarber is an elite caliber
       catcher and he looks like an adequate leftfielder, the decision
       is an easy one for me.
       #Post#: 236520--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: CurtOne
       Date: August 11, 2015, 9:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Did the Twins leave him there or did he insist on staying there?
       
       #Post#: 236522--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: CUBluejays
       Date: August 11, 2015, 10:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Cubs already have a decent LF and C, so playing Schwarber
       comes down to where he will give the Cubs the most value.  It
       isn't if Schwarber plays LF Ross is the starting catcher or if
       he catches Szczur is the starting LF.
       #Post#: 236524--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: Playtwo
       Date: August 11, 2015, 10:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think it would be ideal for Schwarber to be the second catcher
       and mostly start in LF.  Assuming his defense at both positions
       is adequate.
       #Post#: 236526--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: vander-built
       Date: August 11, 2015, 10:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think Mike Napoli is a good Schwarber comp except instead of
       playing 1B he'll be in LF.
       #Post#: 236528--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: CUBluejays
       Date: August 11, 2015, 10:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Napoli was a full time catcher until 2010 and moved off the
       position because of a hip condition by 2012.
       #Post#: 236529--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: craig
       Date: August 11, 2015, 11:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       1.  No rush to decide.  The guy doesn't seem overwhelmed by
       hitting, catching, and left-fielding.  Seems to have the
       attention span and mental capacity to to do all three without
       hitting or defense being compromised.  Let his manager continue
       to mix-and-match and use him as best fits the interests of the
       team at the time.
       2.  I think the mix-and-match can be lineup healthy.  Catchers
       who start too much can get worn down.  If they went through next
       year with Ross, Schwarber, and Montero each catching some games,
       I don't think it would hurt any of those three, frankly.  And if
       Schwarber was playing some starts in left, but Coghlan was
       getting starts in left, plus some at RF or 2B, that wouldn't
       hurt Coghlan either, keep him both rested but also locked in.
       3.  Team needs change, constantly.  Montero is an older catcher
       who may have injuries, may have extended hitting slumps, and may
       have age-based decline.  Don't know how long we're going to want
       Montero catching very much.  If Montero effectively plays out
       his contract, and Schwarber catches a couple games a week in the
       meantime, no problem.  But if Montero can't play effectively
       that much, enlarging Schwarber's responsibilities at catcher
       seems fine.
       4.  reb emphasized adjustments; giving a manager a roster where
       he can be adjusting to present and constantly shifting realities
       is beneficial.
       5.  Lots harder to find a catcher who can hit than a LFer who
       can hit.  Anybody who can hit can play LF.  I'd like to keep LF
       available for hitters.  If you take Schwarber off of C
       permanently, you run the risk of reaching a situation where
       you've got no offense at catcher.  Again, who knows.  Maybe
       Montero will last and be productive offensively for years.
       Maybe Contreras will continue to develop and to hit, and will be
       a very accomplished and productive big-league hitter.  But
       Contreras may fail, Montero may not last, and you might face a
       black hole at catcher.  So, I very much like the concept of
       keeping Schwarber at least available for catching if that does
       turn into a black hole.  And, I very much like the concept of
       keeping some AB's available in LF in case we need offense, or in
       case we somehow come up with a hitter that we'd really like in
       the lineup but otherwise have no spot.  (McKinney?  Jiminez?
       Zagunis?  Happ?  Candelario?  Prospect to be
       drafted/signed/emerge later?)
       6.  reb's hypothetical involved Schwarber as a .900-OPS guy.
       That's beautiful, of course.  But he's early in the adjustment
       phase.  Remotely unlikely wishful thinking to imagine that's
       going to be sustainable.
       7.  reb notes it's too soon to know what Schwarber might be
       defensively in LF.  Speed is just one of many elements,
       reads/routes/smarts/arm/skills are huge elements of quality
       left-fielding also.  I agree with reb that Schwarber may end up
       pretty solid on basis of the others, even without speed.  But I
       also agree with Blue:  his ceiling as a defensive left-fielder
       is constrained by his lack of speed.  It's fine to hypothesize,
       but the odds that he'll be an asset defensive LFer despite his
       lack of speed seem low.
       8.  I think Schwarber projects really, really favorably at
       catcher in terms of the intangibles.  Leadership, working with
       pitchers, calling a game.  The self-confidence and
       strength-of-personality factors are ideal.  Perhaps he'll be too
       poor a receiver, but his personality qualities seem ideal for a
       winning catcher.
       9.  Scoring runs is hard.  Having a consistency of capable
       hitters throughout the lineup is invaluable.  Even the good
       hitters go through slumps, obviously.  So it's hard to sequence
       good hitting if you've got a Lester, weak-hitting catcher, and
       weak-hitting Castro daily in lineup, and then inevitably at
       least a couple of the other good hitters are slumping.  Avoiding
       bad hitters in the lineup is really, really important.  So I'd
       really like to keep LF available for a non-Schwarber hitter to
       avoid easy-outs.
       10.  Soler may get better, and his fielding flaws may be about
       as bad in left as in right.  But I wonder whether he'll end up
       being a bat we absolutely do want to keep, but that he'll
       perhaps end up playing more left than right?
       #Post#: 236533--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
   DIR By: Ron
       Date: August 11, 2015, 11:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I may have missed something in the 15 minuts it took to read it,
       but I found craig's post well reasoned and wise.
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