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#Post#: 236471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: Reb
Date: August 10, 2015, 8:31 pm
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--- Quote from: CUBluejays link ---
>
> Going off of the Fangraphs list for LF, I didn't limit it to
NL only
> 2013 Mike Trout
> 2012 Mike Trout, Ryan Braun, Josh Hamilton, Josh Willingham
> 2011 Ryan Braun, Matt Holliday, Mike Morse
>
> 2011 Matt Holliday was worth 4.4 fWAR, I think that would be a
decent comp for what Schwarber would be worth in LF. Joe Maur
with below average defense and a .860 OPS was worth 4.5 fWAR in
2012. That doesn't even count pitch framing, which Schwarber
doesn't seem to be bad at.
>
--- End Quote ---
Trout and Hamilton were CFers, only part-time LFers. Morse was
a first baseman, part-time LFer. Thought we were talking about
regulars at the position. Missed Holliday because he needed DH
PAs to be a qualifier and site didn't list him, which is
irrelevant. He's in.
Point is that it's rare at any position, not just catcher, to
hit like that. Agree, and kind of obvious, no?.... that same
offense at catcher is more valuable, standing alone, than at
corner OF. But, it's not standing alone. Going to take a lot
of work to develop Schwarber as a catcher. As I previously
suspected, looking likely that will play bulk of games in
LF--next season too, I think. The more he hits, the better he
plays LF defensively, the slower the progress at
catcher--guessing that if all those happen, he's going to be a
LFer.
Biggest single factor keeping him at catcher is the kid wants to
catch. Maybe he's going to like LF too and getting all those ABs
because in lineup as a LFer--don't be surprised if his tune
changes with some gentle nudging from Cubs. Think lot will
depend how much he really wants to work with pitchers, compared
to how much he wants to study opposing pitchers and his own
swing. When he slumps, he might be thinking a bit more about
his own swing and how he's being worked by opposing pitchers.
#Post#: 236475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: August 10, 2015, 9:05 pm
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I was only going off the list fangraphs provided if you sort by
position.
A mediocre defensive catcher is worth more than a mediocre
defensive LF. It is also going to be easier to find an above
league average offensive LF than a above average offensive
catcher. There are 4 qualified above average offensive catchers
this year. Schwarber has work to do with blocking/being
consistent with his throwing. His framing appears to be
serviceable. I don't think he is that far off with his catching
defense. He isn't horrible in LF, but he's never going to have
the speed to be even average there.
#Post#: 236479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: Reb
Date: August 10, 2015, 9:54 pm
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Think premature to evaluate Schwarber in LF as below average
defensively forever.
For me, have no idea yet about Schwarber in LF. Kind of
surprised anyone would say that on such small sample size.
The good defensive LFers cut down on base runners advancing.
2015 Fielding Bible speaks to how this impacts Gordon and
Cespedes outstanding overall LF defense. Not just a RF throwing
arm thing. Remains to be seen how quickly Schwarber will get to
the ball and throw to bases or how his range will be.
#Post#: 236481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: Playtwo
Date: August 10, 2015, 9:58 pm
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Range is a minor factor in a LFer. Taking a direct path to the
ball, catching the balls you get to, and having a decent arm to
challenge runners trying to score. Those are the main requisite
skills.
#Post#: 236482--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: Reb
Date: August 10, 2015, 10:11 pm
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Other big thing is discouraging runners from taking the extra
base--home or any other base. LFers with good arms can play a
little deeper too, which brings the residual benefit of better
range. One would think that a guy with a catcher's arm might be
good at dealing with base runners. Fielding Bible calls Gordon's
throwing the "hallmark" component of his defense.
#Post#: 236490--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: August 11, 2015, 12:25 am
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Gordon range is almost as valuable as his arm. Schwarber does
not have that type of athletic ability. Taking better routes
will help some, but he is a large man and that is going to limit
what he can get too. He's more Matt Holiday than Alex Gordon.
His catching isn't that bad and there is no reason to give up on
it. He will be a far more valuable player as a catcher than an
outfielder.
#Post#: 236491--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: Reb
Date: August 11, 2015, 1:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: CUBluejays link ---
>
> Gordon range is almost as valuable as his arm. Schwarber does
not have that type of athletic ability. Taking better routes
will help some, but he is a large man and that is going to limit
what he can get too. He's more Matt Holiday than Alex Gordon.
>
> His catching isn't that bad and there is no reason to give up
on it. He will be a far more valuable player as a catcher than
an outfielder.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just a wee bit presumptuous to make that judgment at this point
about where Schwarber sits on the LF ability spectrum.
Truth is you have no clue one way or the other nor does anyone
else.
Nobody is talking about "giving up" on catching yet either. Both
experiments will continue and then a decision will be made based
on the evidence and the circumstances.
Try having an open mind until the facts come in. Good for the
soul---and for a proper diagnosis.
#Post#: 236506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: August 11, 2015, 7:42 am
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Sometimes getting the diagnosis correct and fast means the
difference between life and death....
In Schwarber's case having him do both for an extended period of
time will limit his mastery of both. After his year the Cubs
need to pick what they want him to do.
#Post#: 236508--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: August 11, 2015, 7:57 am
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This is baseball which for some IS life or death, but not
really. Many players were slotted into positions where they
worked through college and the minors, maybe even the majors,
before finding their comfort zone. Gordon has been mentioned
here often. Donaldson was a catcher...looks pretty secure at
3rd. Braun was a 3B. There are dozens of others. I doubt that
how Schwarber is used these next couple of years is going to
kill his career.
#Post#: 236512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: August 11, 2015, 8:34 am
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It is about where he provides the most value.
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