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       #Post#: 214211--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: JR
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: brjones link ---
       >
       > I think we're still underestimating just how low the front
       office is on his receiving skills.  They were motivated to
       replace him from day one this offseason.  He may be a good guy,
       decent hitter, and hard worker...but I still think the front
       office has internal metrics that say he's just not a major
       league caliber catcher defensively.
       >
       > It seems like a lot of Cubs fans still view Castillo as an
       adequate starter/very good backup.  But if he was thought of
       that way inside MLB, someone would've made a decent offer for
       him by now.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Just one observation, I just drafted Francisco Cervelli in the
       fantasy league, and I was doing my homework on him.  He's a
       first rate pitch framer by the metrics  (Too bad the BBBFL
       doesn't take pitch framing into account, or my team would be in
       business.).
       All the Pirates had to give up for a first rate pitch framer was
       Justin Wilson, a pretty ordinary lefty middle reliever.  And
       Cervelli's someone that I'm pretty sure the Pirates and Yankees
       both knew had good value as a pitch framer as well as being at
       least a little better than a non-zero with the bat, and in spite
       of that, that's what they determined his value to be.
       I guess a few takeaways from that . . .
       1.  Like Reb was suggesting a while back, while teams might be
       starting to value pitch framing more than they used to, I still
       find it hard to believe even the strongest adherents in MLB
       front offices give it the "Jose Molina is as valuable as an
       Albert Pujols who can catch" value to it that some of these
       people who have been hyping their pitch framing studies do.
       2.  If a great pitch framer like Cervelli could only fetch an
       ordinary lefty middle reliever, no wonder we're having so much
       trouble moving Castillo and finding value for him.
       3.  By the way, that's also not to mention that Dionar Navarro
       and Wilin Rosario are also both on the trade market.  The market
       is pretty flush right now in "bad pitch framing" bad defense
       catchers.
       #Post#: 214212--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: CurtOne
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Pitch framing isn't all of it.  Game calling is a huge part too.
       Working with pitchers, having their confidence.  I'll bet that
       somebody will do a study that reveals that the best pitch
       framers are also reputed to CALL a good game to begin with.
       It's easier to frame a pitch when it coincides with the pitches
       you're calling and how you're working the hitter and the umpire.
       #Post#: 214213--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: JR
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: CurtOne link ---
       >
       > Pitch framing isn't all of it.  Game calling is a huge part
       too.  Working with pitchers, having their confidence.  I'll bet
       that somebody will do a study that reveals that the best pitch
       framers are also reputed to CALL a good game to begin with.
       It's easier to frame a pitch when it coincides with the pitches
       you're calling and how you're working the hitter and the umpire.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yeah that was something I thought was interesting when I was
       reading up on Cervelli.  When the Pirates made the trade for
       him, Brandon McCarthy tweeted Fangraphs that a guy like Cervelli
       would benefit from a "game calling" metric.
  HTML http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pirates-go-to-the-pitch-framing-well-add-francisco-cervelli/
       #Post#: 214214--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: JR
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It seems like MLB teams might just be having a lot of trouble
       putting the proper value on catchers right now, whether it's
       good game calling, good pitch framing catchers or bad game
       calling, bad pitch framing, decent bat catchers.
       It's kind of weird to see good pitch framers like Cervelli have
       mediocre trade market value by two teams that appreciate pitch
       framing, and it's weird to see the glut of guys like Castillo,
       Rosario, and Navarro on the trade market when teams supposedly
       have such a hard time finding even one competent catcher.
       #Post#: 214216--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: Some Guy
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: brjones link ---
       >
       > I think we're still underestimating just how low the front
       office is on his receiving skills.  They were motivated to
       replace him from day one this offseason.  He may be a good guy,
       decent hitter, and hard worker...but I still think the front
       office has internal metrics that say he's just not a major
       league caliber catcher defensively.
       >
       > It seems like a lot of Cubs fans still view Castillo as an
       adequate starter/very good backup.  But if he was thought of
       that way inside MLB, someone would've made a decent offer for
       him by now.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Amen. I'm glad we have Ross - and in AAA, Teagarden. But it
       could also be nice having Castillo as 3rd C when it comes to
       pinch hitting for Montero or Ross late in games against
       same-sided pitchers. That might actually be more valuable than
       what the market will give up for him in trade.
       #Post#: 214220--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: CurtOne
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I know I'm a Jes whispering in the wind, but I still think that
       the contract offer to Ross was a concession to sign Lester.  JMO
       #Post#: 214221--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: CUBluejays
       Date: March 20, 2015, 10:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: JR link ---
       >
       > 3.  By the way, that's also not to mention that Dionar Navarro
       and Wilin Rosario are also both on the trade market.  The market
       is pretty flush right now in "bad pitch framing" bad defense
       catchers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Castillo is bad at pitch framing and maybe game calling, but
       does everything else well.  In the SSS I've seen this spring he
       isn't stabbing at the ball as much when he is catching it and
       seems more quiet when catching the ball.  If he could even
       become anti-awful at pitch framing that would help his value a
       lot.
       #Post#: 214336--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: AndyMacFAIL
       Date: March 20, 2015, 3:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Travis Wood doing his best to hand the 5th starter spot to Edwin
       Jackson.  Five straight hits by the White Sox give them a 3-0
       lead still batting in the bottom of the 1st.
       #Post#: 214337--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: JR
       Date: March 20, 2015, 3:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: AndyMacFAIL link ---
       >
       > Travis Wood doing his best to hand the 5th starter spot to
       Edwin Jackson.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That's something that takes some serious effort.
       #Post#: 214342--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
   DIR By: Dave23
       Date: March 20, 2015, 3:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They're both flaming bags of poop on someone's front porch.
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