DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Bleacher Bums Forum
HTML https://bbf.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Archives
*****************************************************
#Post#: 214211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: JR
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: brjones link ---
>
> I think we're still underestimating just how low the front
office is on his receiving skills. They were motivated to
replace him from day one this offseason. He may be a good guy,
decent hitter, and hard worker...but I still think the front
office has internal metrics that say he's just not a major
league caliber catcher defensively.
>
> It seems like a lot of Cubs fans still view Castillo as an
adequate starter/very good backup. But if he was thought of
that way inside MLB, someone would've made a decent offer for
him by now.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just one observation, I just drafted Francisco Cervelli in the
fantasy league, and I was doing my homework on him. He's a
first rate pitch framer by the metrics (Too bad the BBBFL
doesn't take pitch framing into account, or my team would be in
business.).
All the Pirates had to give up for a first rate pitch framer was
Justin Wilson, a pretty ordinary lefty middle reliever. And
Cervelli's someone that I'm pretty sure the Pirates and Yankees
both knew had good value as a pitch framer as well as being at
least a little better than a non-zero with the bat, and in spite
of that, that's what they determined his value to be.
I guess a few takeaways from that . . .
1. Like Reb was suggesting a while back, while teams might be
starting to value pitch framing more than they used to, I still
find it hard to believe even the strongest adherents in MLB
front offices give it the "Jose Molina is as valuable as an
Albert Pujols who can catch" value to it that some of these
people who have been hyping their pitch framing studies do.
2. If a great pitch framer like Cervelli could only fetch an
ordinary lefty middle reliever, no wonder we're having so much
trouble moving Castillo and finding value for him.
3. By the way, that's also not to mention that Dionar Navarro
and Wilin Rosario are also both on the trade market. The market
is pretty flush right now in "bad pitch framing" bad defense
catchers.
#Post#: 214212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Pitch framing isn't all of it. Game calling is a huge part too.
Working with pitchers, having their confidence. I'll bet that
somebody will do a study that reveals that the best pitch
framers are also reputed to CALL a good game to begin with.
It's easier to frame a pitch when it coincides with the pitches
you're calling and how you're working the hitter and the umpire.
#Post#: 214213--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: JR
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: CurtOne link ---
>
> Pitch framing isn't all of it. Game calling is a huge part
too. Working with pitchers, having their confidence. I'll bet
that somebody will do a study that reveals that the best pitch
framers are also reputed to CALL a good game to begin with.
It's easier to frame a pitch when it coincides with the pitches
you're calling and how you're working the hitter and the umpire.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah that was something I thought was interesting when I was
reading up on Cervelli. When the Pirates made the trade for
him, Brandon McCarthy tweeted Fangraphs that a guy like Cervelli
would benefit from a "game calling" metric.
HTML http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pirates-go-to-the-pitch-framing-well-add-francisco-cervelli/
#Post#: 214214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: JR
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It seems like MLB teams might just be having a lot of trouble
putting the proper value on catchers right now, whether it's
good game calling, good pitch framing catchers or bad game
calling, bad pitch framing, decent bat catchers.
It's kind of weird to see good pitch framers like Cervelli have
mediocre trade market value by two teams that appreciate pitch
framing, and it's weird to see the glut of guys like Castillo,
Rosario, and Navarro on the trade market when teams supposedly
have such a hard time finding even one competent catcher.
#Post#: 214216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: Some Guy
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: brjones link ---
>
> I think we're still underestimating just how low the front
office is on his receiving skills. They were motivated to
replace him from day one this offseason. He may be a good guy,
decent hitter, and hard worker...but I still think the front
office has internal metrics that say he's just not a major
league caliber catcher defensively.
>
> It seems like a lot of Cubs fans still view Castillo as an
adequate starter/very good backup. But if he was thought of
that way inside MLB, someone would've made a decent offer for
him by now.
>
--- End Quote ---
Amen. I'm glad we have Ross - and in AAA, Teagarden. But it
could also be nice having Castillo as 3rd C when it comes to
pinch hitting for Montero or Ross late in games against
same-sided pitchers. That might actually be more valuable than
what the market will give up for him in trade.
#Post#: 214220--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I know I'm a Jes whispering in the wind, but I still think that
the contract offer to Ross was a concession to sign Lester. JMO
#Post#: 214221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: CUBluejays
Date: March 20, 2015, 10:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JR link ---
>
> 3. By the way, that's also not to mention that Dionar Navarro
and Wilin Rosario are also both on the trade market. The market
is pretty flush right now in "bad pitch framing" bad defense
catchers.
>
--- End Quote ---
Castillo is bad at pitch framing and maybe game calling, but
does everything else well. In the SSS I've seen this spring he
isn't stabbing at the ball as much when he is catching it and
seems more quiet when catching the ball. If he could even
become anti-awful at pitch framing that would help his value a
lot.
#Post#: 214336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: AndyMacFAIL
Date: March 20, 2015, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Travis Wood doing his best to hand the 5th starter spot to Edwin
Jackson. Five straight hits by the White Sox give them a 3-0
lead still batting in the bottom of the 1st.
#Post#: 214337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: JR
Date: March 20, 2015, 3:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: AndyMacFAIL link ---
>
> Travis Wood doing his best to hand the 5th starter spot to
Edwin Jackson.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's something that takes some serious effort.
#Post#: 214342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Today's Game - Spring Training 2015
DIR By: Dave23
Date: March 20, 2015, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
They're both flaming bags of poop on someone's front porch.
*****************************************************
Page 27 of 56
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page