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       #Post#: 200624--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: Some Guy
       Date: November 13, 2014, 1:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hamels is a 4 year commitment, and if he performs well enough to
       vest the 5th year, that's a good thing. $22.5M for that 5th year
       will be a steal if he is good enough to vest it. Lester could
       fall off a cliff at any point in a 6-7 year commitment.
       And what Ron said about likelihood of pitcher injury/decline
       also applies to why Hamels' shorter commitment might be a lot
       less risky than what Lester gets.
       And again, Hamels is just way better.
       I can't comment on his future injury risk from whatever he had
       at the start of last year, other than that he clearly came back
       from it with no diminishment. He actually throws harder now than
       ever.
       #Post#: 200625--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: Some Guy
       Date: November 13, 2014, 1:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       But if Baez's potential is too much to part with, then how about
       Russell? I know it's hard to think of losing him, but Hamels
       would be such a huge get and we have so many other enticing
       infield options. Russell is probably currently viewed as more
       valuable than Baez, so maybe him straight up could substitute
       for Baez+Edwards.
       But I would rather still do the Baez+ deal than Russell. How
       necessary is Baez's uncertain upside when we have all that other
       power?
       #Post#: 200627--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: davep
       Date: November 13, 2014, 2:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think Baez's potential is the least among Bryant, Soler,
       Russell and Baez.  For that reason, if I wouldn't trade Baez for
       Hamels, I certainly wouldn't trade one of the others that I
       believe are better.
       I don't think we have a shortstop to "spare".  What makes these
       prospects rather unique is that they are not merely "shortstop
       or infield" prospects.  Each of them have the defensive
       potential to play shortstop, but in addition, each of them have
       the offensive potential potential to play several other
       positions.  Even if every single one of them reaches their
       ceiling, (something that is incredibly unlikely), no one would
       be blocking the others.  we could easily have a line up of RF
       Soler, CF Alcantara, 3B Bryant, SS Castro and 2B Baez, leaving
       LF open for Schwarber, if he fails to make it as a catcher.
       Most shortstop prospects do not have the offensive potential to
       play other positions at a high level, so they lose substantial
       value if moved to another position.  Castro, Baez and Russell do
       have that offensive potential, which makes them rare, if not
       unique.
       #Post#: 200629--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: davep
       Date: November 13, 2014, 2:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       And in breaking news
       "Boras also stated he thinks that the World Series should be
       played in a warm weather neutral location similar to the Super
       Bowl and that MLB draft order should be based on the teams'
       record from the previous two seasons to dissuade tanking."
       Actually, I think both ideas are good ones.
       More surprising, Boras thinks the Cubs should spend more money
       in the free agent market.
       #Post#: 200631--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: davep
       Date: November 13, 2014, 2:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Someone in the comment section of CubsDen made a suggestion that
       I had not thought of before, concerning free agents in this
       year's class of IFA.
       It is not legal to tell a prospective MLB free agent that you
       will sign him as soon as you are able, because that would be
       tampering, pure and simple.  But to tell a free agent, ( which
       is what Moncando will be) that you will sign him next July for
       (insert your figure here) would not be tampering.  Of course,
       you couldn't make it binding on either side, so it would require
       a substantial amount of trust on the part of the free agent
       prospect.
       #Post#: 200636--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: Reb
       Date: November 13, 2014, 3:14 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: davep link ---
       >
       >
       > I don't think we have a shortstop to "spare".  What makes
       these prospects rather unique is that they are not merely
       "shortstop or infield" prospects.  Each of them have the
       defensive potential to play shortstop, but in addition, each of
       them have the offensive potential potential to play several
       other positions.  Even if every single one of them reaches their
       ceiling, (something that is incredibly unlikely), no one would
       be blocking the others.  we could easily have a line up of RF
       Soler, CF Alcantara, 3B Bryant, SS Castro and 2B Baez, leaving
       LF open for Schwarber, if he fails to make it as a catcher.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Think you just supported the opposite of your argument.  Where's
       Russell in the above lineup?  Blocked or blocking somebody else?
       There isn't room for everybody 'if every single one of them
       reaches their ceiling."
       Somebody in that group is going to get traded in the next 15
       months.
       #Post#: 200637--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: davep
       Date: November 13, 2014, 3:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Not an issue.  Russell at 3B and Bryant in LF or the reverse.
       Either one will work.
       #Post#: 200639--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: CUBluejays
       Date: November 13, 2014, 3:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Some Guy link ---
       >
       > Hamels is a 4 year commitment, and if he performs well enough
       to vest the 5th year, that's a good thing. $22.5M for that 5th
       year will be a steal if he is good enough to vest it. Lester
       could fall off a cliff at any point in a 6-7 year commitment.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       His option vests on IP thrown.  It doesn't have anything to do
       with him being effective.  The only way he doesn't vest the
       option is if he's hurt and can't pitch 200 innings/year.  Is
       contract fairly values him and at 5 years (Fifth year vests at
       $24 million), there isn't enough savings to give up an elite
       prospect.  If the Cubs are a World Series team, then that
       changes the math on trading for him and what you would give.
       The Cubs aren't at that point and with the pitching in the free
       agent market this year and next that is the preferred way to
       acquire pitching.  Trading for Hamels takes away prospect
       inventory and cash.
       The difference between Lester and Hamels isn't worth Baez
       either.
       #Post#: 200641--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: CUBluejays
       Date: November 13, 2014, 3:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Moncada didn't defect from Cuba and was allowed to leave so he
       still has a Cuban passport.  I wonder if that will slow down the
       US government from clearing him.  Weird that Cuba let him go.
       #Post#: 200643--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hot Stove 2015
   DIR By: DelMarFan
       Date: November 13, 2014, 4:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would like to have Hamels, but I wouldn't go higher than
       Alcantara plus lesser prospects to get him.
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