DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Bleacher Bums Forum
HTML https://bbf.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Archives
*****************************************************
#Post#: 199672--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: CUBluejays Date: November 4, 2014, 5:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scherzer is also an extreme fly ball pitcher, which is also
scary in Wrigley.
#Post#: 199674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: Jes Beard Date: November 4, 2014, 6:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ron link=topic=209.msg199651#msg199651
date=1415138162]
I do really hope that the Cubs are able to get Martin. Beyond
his obvious fine offensive and defensive attributes, he also
brings, by all accounts, special leadership qualities. That's
something the Cubs have repeatedly emphasized that they intend
to look for in any additions. It's hard to imagine another
position player who would be as valuable to the Cubs over the
next few years.
[/quote]
If the Cubs sign Martin, I have no difficulty imagining that
Rizzo would be every bit as valuable over the next years. Or
Soler. Or Bryant. Or Castro. Or Baez. It might be that each
of those will struggle and fail, that Martin will show none of
the normal wear-related decline seen in catchers, that his
offensive numbers will continue to levitate after he learned how
to magically elevate his BABIP this season, and that by virtue
of his leadership every player on the Cub roster will gain ten
pounds of grizzle in 2015. But I still have no difficulty at
least imagining at least one of those guys I named might be more
valuable over the next few years.
#Post#: 199675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: Dave23 Date: November 4, 2014, 6:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty confident he was referring to other FA position
players this offseason...
#Post#: 199676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: Jes Beard Date: November 4, 2014, 6:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am pretty confident he did not write that.
#Post#: 199679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: Ron Date: November 4, 2014, 7:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave23 link=topic=209.msg199675#msg199675
date=1415148253]
I'm pretty confident he was referring to other FA position
players this offseason...
[/quote]
Yep. Very perceptive.
#Post#: 199680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: craig Date: November 4, 2014, 7:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=CUBluejays link=topic=209.msg199672#msg199672
date=1415145583]
Scherzer is also an extreme fly ball pitcher, which is also
scary in Wrigley.
[/quote]
Thanks, didn't know that. How do Lester and Shields compare in
that regard? And, when you report the "extreme fly ball" rate,
is that statistic in terms of fly-to-grounder or fly-to-AB?
(When you K so many guys, that leaves fewer guys hitting the
ball anywhere, air or ground.)
#Post#: 199683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: ben Date: November 4, 2014, 7:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I just don't see us going after Scherzer and the big problem
isn't fly balls.
Boras is going to extract more than $150M from some team and
it's likely Scherzer will only be an ace another 2-3 years.
That's the problem. (e.g. see Verlander/Sabbathia after age 30)
The wind blows in at Wrigley about as much as out...the hitters
love Wrigley more because of the hitting background and the very
limited foul territory. Clearly, we would prefer a ground ball
pitcher, but a high-strikeout pitcher as Scherzer could still
work great, if no ridiculous contract required. Further, I've
never heard anyone suggest Scherzer is a leader type or left
handed, both of which Theo/Jed would likely overslot somewhat.
The BEST season for Scherzer is likely to be 2015...is that
likely when Cubs peak? I don't see Cubs going real hard after
Scherzer. Lester on the other hand...
#Post#: 199684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: ben Date: November 4, 2014, 7:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
FWIW, at the top of my wish list would be Lester and Martin, and
I see their value to Cubs pretty close...if Martin leaves Bucs,
that would, seemingly, hurt them a lot and we will likely have
to beat them to make the playoffs (this year and future years).
I like Welly, but his framing problem still isn't fixed and it
sounds as though Cubs have tried everything.
As someone else said, if we go 4 or so years on Martin, he could
split time with Schwarber down the road a bit and help groom him
to take over.
If we don't get Lester, we will almost certainly get someone
else pretty good this winter and another top FA arm next winter.
Jason Hammel was terrific for us, but I doubt we will give him
the money/years it will take to get him...likewise,
Anderson...but I'd love to see Cubs get those guys, too.
The Maddon press conf really has me dreaming big!
#Post#: 199688--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: craig Date: November 4, 2014, 8:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote][font=Verdana]The BEST season for Scherzer is likely to
be 2015...is that likely when Cubs peak? .....[/font][/quote]
ben, Lester is slightly older than Scherzer. Not sure how that
logic applies any differently for Scherzer than for Lester.
You're saying it makes more sense to go market on Lester but it
doesn't on Scherzer because Lester will age better? Or because
he's lefty?
Or just because Lester is less good so he'll cost less and
therefore you risk less?
#Post#: 199694--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hot Stove 2015
By: ben Date: November 4, 2014, 8:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Craig, i think Lester is by far the more likely and better SP
target because:
* less money (probably quite a bit less given what Boras has
already turned down)
* Theo/Jed know Lester very well and like him a lot...they see
him as a team leader, which is also worth quite a bit right now
* left handed
* much success in playoffs (far more than Scherzer) in years
past and had Oakland's pen not been burned out by end of year
and Lester removed when he should have been, he would have also
made a plus start in the WC game
Lester is about the same age as Schwarzer and likely to perform
about as well in upcoming years, but has the above advantages.
Schwarzer has been the better pitcher in regular season play in
recent years, but for the above reasons, Lester will almost
certainly be our target...and that's fine with me.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page