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#Post#: 5322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: May 3, 2011, 8:05 am
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[quote author=Eastcoastfan link=topic=11.msg5317#msg5317
date=1304423844]
Yeah, I am so sick of US presidents urging Americans to martyr
themselves.
[/quote]
But that was not among the things Brennan was criticizing. All
of the things Brennan was criticizing would apply to virtually
every military leader during the era of modern warfare.
#Post#: 5325--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: davep Date: May 3, 2011, 8:21 am
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"What is the proper relationship between "justice" and
"revenge"? Is revenge a justifiable goal in itself?"
Yes.
#Post#: 5326--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: Playtwo Date: May 3, 2011, 8:28 am
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[quote author=davep link=topic=11.msg5325#msg5325
date=1304428915]
"What is the proper relationship between "justice" and
"revenge"? Is revenge a justifiable goal in itself?"
Yes.
[/quote]
My own feeling is that revenge for the sake of revenge is a
terrible human instinct.
#Post#: 5328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: CurtOne Date: May 3, 2011, 8:33 am
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[quote author=Playtwo link=topic=11.msg5326#msg5326
date=1304429309]
My own feeling is that revenge for the sake of revenge is a
terrible human instinct.
[/quote]
I'm going to get you for saying that!
#Post#: 5336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: May 3, 2011, 9:31 am
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[quote author=Playtwo link=topic=11.msg5326#msg5326
date=1304429309]
My own feeling is that revenge for the sake of revenge is a
terrible human instinct.
[/quote]
I don't know.... isn't it a basic tenet of Christianity?
Perhaps I am confused....
#Post#: 5368--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: Playtwo Date: May 3, 2011, 12:42 pm
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"Eye for an eye". An awful concept.
#Post#: 5380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: Jes Beard Date: May 3, 2011, 1:12 pm
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It's a concept which leads to a lot of blind people, and it is a
concept which is not expressed at all in the New Testament.
Nothing wrong with embracing the Old Testament and ignoring the
New Testament. Millions of Jews do.
#Post#: 5384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: CurtOne Date: May 3, 2011, 1:41 pm
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[quote author=Playtwo link=topic=11.msg5368#msg5368
date=1304444548]
"Eye for an eye". An awful concept.
[/quote]
Especially if you happen to be a cyclops.
#Post#: 5596--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: CurtOne Date: May 4, 2011, 11:02 am
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I'm sure Pakistan was complicit in some of the hiding of OBL,
but I've given this some thought...
If OBL had somehow gotten to the US, put in the back of a semi,
transferred in some Rest Area to a Tahoe with dark windows,
driven to my neighborhood into my neighbor's garage, where he
disembarked...
never to go on the internet, make a phone call, cell or regular,
never looked out the window, went outside, but had his whole
life run by couriers bringing him news and taking out his
orders...
would I know he was there? Probably not. In that respect,
maybe we're being too hard on Pakistan. I'm sure that a)
somebody in the government helped him initially, if not all
along, and b) somebody should have wondered who was living in
this new compound with concertina wire and big tall walls,
especially local police and officials.
c) if my neighbor suddenly built big walls with concertina wire,
I'd certainly express some curiosity, enough so that more
questions would be asked.
I am surprised that he wasn't surrounded by more loyal guards
and supporters.
#Post#: 5608--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
By: davep Date: May 4, 2011, 12:26 pm
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The problem with the speculation and second guessing that you
see on ALL the media channels is that many of the speculators?
are speaking out of sheer ignorance.
One of the things they are harping on was the fact that the
compound was so out of place in that neighborhood that it should
have been obvious that something was going on there.
In 1986 I was purchasing spices for a company called Griffith
Laboratories. At that time I traveled to Pakistan to visit the
various growers and suppliers of red pepper, at that time a
large export crop in Pakistan. We went to about 15 processors
around the country, and as part of the visit, each of them took
me to their "country house", which was, at least from the
outside, identical to the compound that contained Osama - a fort
like four or more walls enclosing a house, servant's house,
gardens, etc. Each of those were located in the middle of an
extremely poor village or neighborhood, and stood out from the
rest, to me at least, like a sore thumb. There are thousands
and thousands of these located throughout not only Pakistan, but
also northern India and Afghanistan.
As Curt points out above, there was little or no reason for the
neighbors or anyone else to have strong suspicions that there
were terrorists in the compound, let alone the head terrorist.
In hindsight, it is easy to make a point that someone "should
have known" that he was there. But hindsight is merely a way
for foolish people to look smart. Now a way to shed light on a
situation.
That said, it is known that the Pakistani intelligence agency
has quite a few terrorist sympathizers in it, as does the
country as a whole. It seems likely that some of them knew what
was going on, and were actively helping him. We know that
because when Clinton bombed the training camp in 1998, he did
the "proper" thing and let the Pakistani government know in
advance that he was doing it. Someone warned Osama, and he was
able to get out before the bombs came.
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