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#Post#: 10076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: davep
Date: May 23, 2011, 6:32 pm
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Before you replied, I had already modified my post.
But my point was that without the subsidies, the small farmers
would no longer exist. Large agribusiness is much more
efficient than small family farms, and without subsidies, would
long ago been driven out of business.
By the way, even the term "small family farms" is rapidly
becoming extinct. Even a great many family farms are no longer
small. Family farms now farm thousands of acres of wheat and
corn. Others produce thousands of pigs. Farms that produce
hundreds of thousands of chicken are owned by family
corporations. There are still many "small farmers" left, but
without the government subsidies (ethanol is only one small one)
they would be totally extinct.
Which, by the way, would not be a bad thing. But in the
meantime, all the small farmers vote. As do the people owning
the family farm corporations. And the thousands of small
businessmen scattered throughout Iowa and other states that make
a living when the farmers are prosperous.
Farmers eat at the public trough even more than the citizens of
the inner cities. And they know where their subsidies come
from. Pawlenty will recant his position or he will lose Iowa.
He may well win enough states to run in the general election,
but he isn't helping himself in Iowa.
#Post#: 10083--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: May 23, 2011, 7:08 pm
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Of course, Dave...there is another way to look at it.
Some family farms or corporate farms that raise cattle or hogs
would love to see less corn going to ethanol and the price of
corn coming down. It cuts into their meat profit in two ways:
it costs more to raise the animal and it raises the price at the
store to the point people don't buy it, bringing demand down and
lowering price even more. Most of these people are Republicans.
Most of them have a saying: turning food into energy has never
been a good idea.
#Post#: 10087--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: davep
Date: May 23, 2011, 7:15 pm
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No subsidy helps everyone. Whenever the government interferes
in the free market, some are hurt and others are helped. That
is only one reason why there should be NO subsidies.
I suspect that throughout Iowa, there are more corn farmers than
there are pig farmers. And that more money comes into the state
because of corn farming than because of pig farming. But you
are right, it is my firm hope that those outside of the corn
industry get so sick of increased food prices that they vote for
candidates that will try to do away with them.
But that doesn't change the original discussion, that Iowa isn't
a wise place to announce that you want to end subsidies on
ethanol.
#Post#: 10088--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: FDISK
Date: May 23, 2011, 7:20 pm
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Whenever the government interferes in the free market, some are
hurt and others are helped.
The same could be said for when government doesn't interfere.
#Post#: 10094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: CurtOne
Date: May 23, 2011, 7:33 pm
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--- Quote from: davep link ---
>
>
> But that doesn't change the original discussion, that Iowa
isn't a wise place to announce that you want to end subsidies on
ethanol.
>
--- End Quote ---
Most of those ******* can't read or write anyhow.
#Post#: 10103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: davep
Date: May 23, 2011, 8:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"The same could be said for when government doesn't interfere."
True. But I trust the free market a lot more than I trust the
government.
#Post#: 10119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: FDISK
Date: May 23, 2011, 11:56 pm
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True. But I trust the free market a lot more than I trust the
government.
For myself, I don't fully trust either. Some would say that
complete trust in government is the road to tyranny. Others
that complete trust in the "free market" (whatever that means)
will lead to anarchy. I try not to trust people who trust too
much.
#Post#: 10144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: Jes Beard
Date: May 24, 2011, 9:03 am
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--- Quote from: davep link ---
>
> But my point was that without the subsidies, the small farmers
would no longer exist. Large agribusiness is much more
efficient than small family farms, and without subsidies, would
long ago been driven out of business.... There are still many
"small farmers" left, but without the government subsidies
(ethanol is only one small one) they would be totally
extinct.... Farmers eat at the public trough even more than the
citizens of the inner cities. And they know where their
subsidies come from. Pawlenty will recant his position or he
will lose Iowa. He may well win enough states to run in the
general election, but he isn't helping himself in Iowa.
--- End Quote ---
We will see about your predictions. Huckabee won in Iowa, and I
don't recall his position on ethanol, but I believe he opposed
it. As to small farms being "totally extinct," you overstate
the situation much the same as the alarmists who claim we will
totally "run out of oil" if we do not make major, government
directed, investment in "alternative energy," and that there
will be "no oil" left in the ground.
(On checking Huckabee's positions before the 2008 primary in
Iowa, you are correct and he clearly appeared to be pandering on
ethanol to get the Iowa vote. Since I decided I could not
support Huckabee for other reasons, his position on ethanol was
not one I paid much attention to at the time.)
But trying to compare foolish government spending to distort
economic decisions ("Farmers eat at the public trough even more
than the citizens of the inner cities") to me is rather
pointless. I don't know which one gets more -- NEITHER should
get any.
#Post#: 10146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: brjones
Date: May 24, 2011, 9:18 am
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Everyone watch out...Harold Camping has spoken, and the world is
now ending on October 21.
#Post#: 10147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Politics, Religion, etc. etc.
DIR By: Keysbear
Date: May 24, 2011, 9:23 am
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So, the Cubs pull off a miracle and make the playoffs and just
about the time that they win the NL and are about to go to the
World Series the world ends...yeah, sounds about right.
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