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#Post#: 25643--------------------------------------------------
Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with friends
DIR By: Victoria
Date: February 10, 2019, 1:12 pm
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I'm friends with Sarah, who is married to Ryan. I first met
Sarah through a yoga class we both attend regularly, and Sarah
is the team leader for a volunteer project we're doing with a
local nonprofit. I've attended movie and game nights at their
house and the volunteer group regularly meets there if we're not
meeting at the nonprofit, and Sarah regularly cooks and serves
food. Her house is the most centrally located out of anyone's
and closest to the nonprofit.
The specific issue that I'm having is that I don't want to do
activities at Sarah and Ryan's house anymore, but because we do
so much together I don't know if there's a graceful way to bow
out or even state my concerns. They have a large dog and a large
cat, both of which I am allergic to. I'm not deathly allergic,
but I often leave their place with a stuffy nose and a bit of a
headache. They don't move the animals to another room when we're
there (I'm not suggesting that they must or even should, just
that they don't) and so they're always underfoot, and I always
leave with my coat and person covered in hair. Aside from my
allergies, the cat jumps on counters, licks at food that was
then set out on the table, and the dog licks dinner plates and
whatever else she can find. Sarah has brushed it off and
flat-out said "We don't care if she does that, it's all going in
the dishwasher eventually anyway." They try to get the animals
to stay in the living room, but usually give up about halfway
through whatever we're doing.
Sarah teaches children as part of her day job and once when our
volunteer group was meeting, Sarah brought out a bunch of items
to make tacos and mentioned that the kids had a "make your own
taco" day for Cinco de Mayo. I nonchalantly asked Sarah if the
kids had touched the food themselves, and she said "Oh yeah,
they just grabbed what they wanted out of the bowls." I politely
declined to eat after that, but she pressed me and didn't
understand why I didn't want to eat the food until I flat-out
said "I'm not comfortable eating food that a large group of
children has already handled with their bare fingers." There
have been other issues as well. The Brita pitcher that she uses
to serve water smells like mold. Not their water, the actual
pitcher, which I discovered recently. I've watched Sarah open a
bag of lettuce by clamping down on it with her teeth and ripping
it open, leaving saliva all over the top of the package. I once
got mild food poisoning after eating a charcuterie board there.
They have "clean" dishes with sticky residue on them, dirty
dishes lining their counters, and I found out that Sarah doesn't
believe in expiration and best by dates. She's also admitted to
me that both she and Ryan struggle with depression and with
keeping the house tidy, which is evident from the clutter, messy
kitchen, and piles of dog/cat hair.
I'm not comfortable with any of this. I've already tried to
gently extract myself from certain things and have been largely
successful. I've eaten before going to Sarah's the last time our
volunteer group met (though Sarah and the group gave me a hard
time about it) and have successfully requested that we meet at
the nonprofit center instead of her house. However, the other
people in the group don't appear to be struggling with the same
issues that I am. I know that I'm entitled to my feelings and at
the same time, Sarah's entitled to eat and keep house the way
that she wants. But I know that "My dog and cat allergies are
acting up" and "Oh darn, I already ate" aren't going to work as
excuses forever. I know this is long, but I would appreciate any
input that other people have on navigating issues like these.
#Post#: 25644--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Lilac
Date: February 10, 2019, 1:22 pm
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Ugh. I don't blame you; I would not be setting foot there
again.
Who does she report to re this project -- some sort of volunteer
coordinator? Could you ask that person to stipulate that
meetings be held at the non-profit's premises?
Otherwise I think the best you can do is say "I'm afraid my
animal allergies are getting worse and my health care provider
has recommended I stay away from animals for the time being.
Can we meet at the center?"
If they won't accommodate you, can you join the
meetings/discussions by speakerphone? Most smartphones are
adequate for that, now.
Do the others eat her food without hesitation? How many people
are we talking, and how often are the meetings.
Can you get reassigned to a different project / different group?
#Post#: 25647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: gmatoy
Date: February 10, 2019, 2:44 pm
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In the past, I've had people question how bad my allergy to cats
is. I pointed out that I take medicine before going to their
home and more when back home and that I get to be sick for two
days afterward. I will not give up going there (it is my son's
home) but I know it will cancel out several days.
I think your health trumps her desire to "entertain." A word of
warning: The more you are exposed to things your body doesn't
like, the more you will have reactions. They will happen more
quickly, last longer, and be harder on your body.
You've been given great advise from Lilac. I suggest that you
use it.
#Post#: 25652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: guest657
Date: February 10, 2019, 4:32 pm
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There are a few things you mentioned that wouldn't squick me out
as much as they do you, but others I am 100 percent with you in
being put off.
I think the advice about asking if the volunteer meetings could
be moved is spot on. Other than that, I think your best option
is just to socialize at your own house or a public place, and
decline invitations to their home.
They probably will notice, and they may feel that you are
pulling back from the friendship. Which you kind of would be,
slightly. Anytime you have to place specific structures around
the way you interact with someone, that's a bit distancing.
But there's really no way to say, "your nasty plates and gross
kitchen squick me out" without insulting the person. So I think
avoiding the situation is your best bet, and hope the friendship
can settle into a different pattern.
The way to reassure them that you don't dislike them personally,
is to make sure you're proactively inviting them to things and
making time to see them in other places.
#Post#: 25655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Kiwipinball
Date: February 10, 2019, 5:31 pm
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I think you can 100% blame it on your allergies - they don't
sound like they're going to be offering to try to vacuum all pet
hair/dander up (which is quite a job, I'm not trying to imply
that only slobs wouldn't). It's not uncommon, as other posters
mentioned, for allergies to get worse. Or you could explain that
you'd previously hoped to power through your allergies, but
they're just taking too much out of you. You don't have to be
deathly allergic to want to avoid it. My friend has two cats and
I limit the amount of time I spend in her home. Her house is
cleaner than mine generally, but it has cat dander rather than
dog dander. I can tolerate it for short periods of time, but not
too long. So we don't hang out in her house very often. I would
also try to advocate for more meetings at the center whenever
possible.
#Post#: 25670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Writer of Wrongs
Date: February 10, 2019, 9:02 pm
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Oh. Oh no. I’m afraid, much as I would try to hide it, that my
face would unmistakably convey my horror. I was cringing all the
way through your post, and I honestly think that I would just
own it: “I’m sorry, I’m a bit of a germaphobe, plus the animals
are setting off my allergies.”
Truly, any of the things you described would be total
deal-breakers for me, to the point that I would even consider
dropping out of the activity.
Good luck, OP!
#Post#: 25675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: NFPwife
Date: February 10, 2019, 10:45 pm
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Like others, I think your allergies are a gracious way out of
this. The level of discomfort you're experiencing, in and of
itself, is enough of a deal breaker to say you can't go back.
The rest? Ewwww....
#Post#: 25681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Aleko
Date: February 11, 2019, 2:12 am
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I don't believe in expiry and best before dates either. (And
recent studies in the UK have showed that elderly people whose
eyesight is too poor to read them, and use their judgement of
the look and smell of their food to decide whether it's fit to
eat, are at significantly lower risk of food poisoning than
those who go by the labels.) Nor would I worry about bowls of
ingredients that children had been using - if the children
didn't poison themselves, it's not likely to poison anyone else.
Mouldy water filters are dangerous, however, which is why using
a water filter at all is foolish unless there is a real issue
with the water supply - I'd always go for plain tap water
myself. And while having the dog 'pre-wash' the plates is icky
rather than actually dangerous, serving pre-licked food is just
not on.
But, as everyone agrees, there is no polite way to say 'Your
house and your food are too filthy for me to eat in', however
true that may be, and your animal allergies are a perfectly
valid excuse. You don't even need to claim that they are getting
worse; simply that you have tried to cope but you just can't
keep going to a place from which you routinely return feeling
unwell. (This doesn't necessarily even imply they are to blame
for not hoovering or keeping their animals away from you; it's
very hard indeed to obliterate all traces of animal from a house
where animals live.)
#Post#: 25683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Effie
Date: February 11, 2019, 6:54 am
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--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> I don't believe in expiry and best before dates either. (And
recent studies in the UK have showed that elderly people whose
eyesight is too poor to read them, and use their judgement of
the look and smell of their food to decide whether it's fit to
eat, are at significantly lower risk of food poisoning than
those who go by the labels.) Nor would I worry about bowls of
ingredients that children had been using - if the children
didn't poison themselves, it's not likely to poison anyone else.
>
> Mouldy water filters are dangerous, however, which is why
using a water filter at all is foolish unless there is a real
issue with the water supply - I'd always go for plain tap water
myself. And while having the dog 'pre-wash' the plates is icky
rather than actually dangerous, serving pre-licked food is just
not on.
>
> But, as everyone agrees, there is no polite way to say 'Your
house and your food are too filthy for me to eat in', however
true that may be, and your animal allergies are a perfectly
valid excuse. You don't even need to claim that they are getting
worse; simply that you have tried to cope but you just can't
keep going to a place from which you routinely return feeling
unwell. (This doesn't necessarily even imply they are to blame
for not hoovering or keeping their animals away from you; it's
very hard indeed to obliterate all traces of animal from a house
where animals live.)
>
--- End Quote ---
Regarding the bolded: I have to assume your experience with
children is limited. They are generally unsanitary walking petri
dishes. Poison is not the concern. Catching the virulent bug du
jour that they are masters of disseminating is a huge concern.
Of all the things OP listed, THIS is the one that would have me
putting on a hazmat suit.
#Post#: 25684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Managing different cleanliness/hygiene expectations with
friends
DIR By: Elmore 2.0
Date: February 11, 2019, 6:58 am
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Do people who eat there really know that theit animals are
eating off the plates,before they do? If so, maybe that group
has their same view on cleanliness and you need to find a new
crowd.
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