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#Post#: 23883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Aleko
Date: January 12, 2019, 1:11 pm
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On a London-based discussion board someone once complained 'Why
do people constantly try to shove their way on board a Tube
train when they can see for themselves that it's already full?'
And the sad but true answer is that London commuters know - they
don't 'think': by God they know - that the people already on
board will not move up to make space for them unless they're
shoved.
You can see this on any Tube platform. Say it's evening rush
hour, and the platform is packed with people waiting to get on.
When the train arrives it's full, but this is one of the
stations that's a major interchange, so lots of people get off,
maybe a dozen from every carriage. So logically that means
there's room for a dozen people to get on, right? Except that
when those dozen got off, everyone else in the carriage said to
themselves, 'Ooh good, now we can have our personal space
again!' and expanded after them to take up all the space; so now
the carriage looks as full as it did before all those people got
off and the people nearest the doors are staring blankly at the
people waiting to get in, as if to say 'What are you looking at?
Can't you see this carriage is full?' And they will not contract
back into the space they were previously occupying unless they
are shoved all the way; and the only way to be sure that there
genuinely is no room for one more is to shove till even shoving
won't work. Sad but true.
And on suburban trains, where we too have inadequately-wide
triple seats, people who have secured a place on either side of
a triple will instinctively let themselves 'overflow' into the
middle, in the hope that anybody wanting to sit down will take
one look, assume it's physically impossible, and not try. It may
work in many cases; but if someone is brash enough to sit down
between them anyway, they may find that there's more room than
there appeared.
So unless US commuters are far more sweetly selfless and
community-minded than London ones, which I kind of doubt, it's
not at all unreasonable for someone to try to sit between two
large people, in the hope that they aren't as large as they were
making themselves look..
#Post#: 23885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: January 12, 2019, 1:22 pm
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I feel that it hasn't been as bad as it used to be--maybe a
redesign of the train interior affected it--but it used to be in
NYC that the people just 4 steps inside the door wouldn't move
in more, and so there would be HUGE gaps in the middle of the
car, visible from the windows, and a crunch of people by the
door that you couldn't get through to get to that open space.
So people push. Or, if you're me, you call out and say, "There's
room in the middle, please move down!"
Ditto on the busses. People go a short distance, and then they
plant themselves, and even if you were wanting to go beyond them
to the open space, you can't. Not without shoving.
#Post#: 23887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: AliciaLynette
Date: January 12, 2019, 1:46 pm
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The same thing happens TootsNYC, on buses in the UK, to the
point that there are signs and the driver will yell 'Please move
down the bus.' to get more people on. Of course, most people
here will move themselves without being asked, but there always
one who ignores the fact they're blocking people from getting
past!
#Post#: 23894--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Songbird
Date: January 12, 2019, 4:10 pm
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I commute on the Long Island Railroad and ride the NYC Subway.
It’s just like London, though Toots is right that the subway
isn’t as bad as it used to be.
#Post#: 24116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Songbird
Date: January 16, 2019, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
last night's outrageous behavior:
The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for a
seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please keep
their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down the
aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was too
crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect tickets.
Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train, and I had
a seat.
Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and no
one else complained.
the entitlement factor at work here ...
#Post#: 24197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Hanna
Date: January 17, 2019, 9:21 am
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--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
> last night's outrageous behavior:
>
> The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for
a seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please
keep their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down
the aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was
too crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect
tickets. Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train,
and I had a seat.
>
> Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
>
> I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and
no one else complained.
>
> the entitlement factor at work here ...
>
--- End Quote ---
They all boarded at the same station?
#Post#: 24198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Songbird
Date: January 17, 2019, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hanna link ---
>
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg24116#msg24116
date=1547651917]
> last night's outrageous behavior:
>
> The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for
a seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please
keep their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down
the aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was
too crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect
tickets. Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train,
and I had a seat.
>
> Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
>
> I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and
no one else complained.
>
> the entitlement factor at work here ...
>
--- End Quote ---
They all boarded at the same station?
[/quote]
Yes. The train originated at Penn Station. the passengers were
all standing on the platform like a pack of wolves waiting for
the train to arrive from the yard. I was at the front of the
pack and was amng the first to board the train. I don't know
for sure, but I think the yong woman pushed her way through the
crowd to board the train, she mntioned that she and her friends
became separated in the crowd.
#Post#: 24199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Jem
Date: January 17, 2019, 9:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
> [quote author=Hanna link=topic=925.msg24197#msg24197
date=1547738487]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg24116#msg24116
date=1547651917]
> last night's outrageous behavior:
>
> The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for
a seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please
keep their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down
the aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was
too crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect
tickets. Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train,
and I had a seat.
>
> Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
>
> I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and
no one else complained.
>
> the entitlement factor at work here ...
>
--- End Quote ---
They all boarded at the same station?
[/quote]
Yes. The train originated at Penn Station. the passengers were
all standing on the platform like a pack of wolves waiting for
the train to arrive from the yard. I was at the front of the
pack and was amng the first to board the train. I don't know
for sure, but I think the yong woman pushed her way through the
crowd to board the train, she mntioned that she and her friends
became separated in the crowd.
[/quote]
I'm having a difficult time envisioning this. So people were
already standing inside the train, and there were multiple empty
seats (apparently at least five - one for the OP, one for the
woman saving seats, and three for the seats being saved), when
the train pulled into the station? And no one said anything to
the person saving the seats? I would assume that the people who
chose to stand when there were so many open seats made that
choice consciously.
#Post#: 24205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: caroled
Date: January 17, 2019, 10:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
> [quote author=Hanna link=topic=925.msg24197#msg24197
date=1547738487]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg24116#msg24116
date=1547651917]
> last night's outrageous behavior:
>
> The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for
a seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please
keep their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down
the aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was
too crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect
tickets. Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train,
and I had a seat.
>
> Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
>
> I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and
no one else complained.
>
> the entitlement factor at work here ...
>
--- End Quote ---
They all boarded at the same station?
[/quote]
Yes. The train originated at Penn Station. the passengers were
all standing on the platform like a pack of wolves waiting for
the train to arrive from the yard. I was at the front of the
pack and was amng the first to board the train. I don't know
for sure, but I think the yong woman pushed her way through the
crowd to board the train, she mntioned that she and her friends
became separated in the crowd.
[/quote]
She was in one , her bag in one and her feet in a 3rd opposite
her, that left a 4th unoccupied seat.... I don't believe I'd
have had a problem sitting in that seat if I had a need to sit
rather than stand during the commute. She and her friends could
all stare daggers at me if they liked. But I , or anyone else
there that chose to take the seat had just as much right to it ,
if not more so by fact that we were actually on board first,
ahead of her late friends.
( As a BG: I put up with that bullshit as a child when I didn't
know, nor did I have the voice to speak up when I rode the
school bus as a child. I was picked up as the 4th stop or so on
a route that stopped 5 more times after mine. A lot of the high
school students that were picked up earlier would claim their
seats, and spread out their belongings to save seats for friends
who wouldn't board for another 3 or 4 stops, another 30 minutes
or so later. I was blessed/ fortunate enough to attend this
private school, but extra fees over and above the tuition costs
were applied if students rode the buses. I had just as much
right to a seat that was bought and paid for as everybody else.)
#Post#: 24206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Songbird
Date: January 17, 2019, 11:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jem link ---
>
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg24198#msg24198
date=1547739228]
> [quote author=Hanna link=topic=925.msg24197#msg24197
date=1547738487]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg24116#msg24116
date=1547651917]
> last night's outrageous behavior:
>
> The train was two cars short, and everyone had to scramble for
a seat. The railroad personnel had to ask everyone to please
keep their bags off the seats, and those standing to move down
the aisle so that everyone could board the train. The train was
too crowded for the conductor to walk through to collect
tickets. Fortunately I was among the first ot board the train,
and I had a seat.
>
> Across the aisle from me there was a group of four seats, two
facing two. A young woman sat down and put her bag on the seat
next to her, and her feet on the opposite seat. She was saving
three seats for her friends who had not yet boarded the train.
Two of her friends boarded about a minute or two after we did,
but the third boarded just before the train left the station.
>
> I didn't say anything, since I was already sitting down, and
no one else complained.
>
> the entitlement factor at work here ...
>
--- End Quote ---
They all boarded at the same station?
[/quote]
Yes. The train originated at Penn Station. the passengers were
all standing on the platform like a pack of wolves waiting for
the train to arrive from the yard. I was at the front of the
pack and was amng the first to board the train. I don't know
for sure, but I think the yong woman pushed her way through the
crowd to board the train, she mntioned that she and her friends
became separated in the crowd.
[/quote]
I'm having a difficult time envisioning this. So people were
already standing inside the train, and there were multiple empty
seats (apparently at least five - one for the OP, one for the
woman saving seats, and three for the seats being saved), when
the train pulled into the station? And no one said anything to
the person saving the seats? I would assume that the people who
chose to stand when there were so many open seats made that
choice consciously.
[/quote]
Maybe I can help.
the train originated in penn Station. It was in the yard and
pulled into the station empty. There was a huge crowd standing
on the platform waiting to board. When the train doors opened,
there was a mad rush to claim seats. I was one of the lucky
ones.
that train is usually 12 cars, but on the night in question it
was only 10 cars. but 12 cars' worth of passengers were on the
platform.
If you look at the picture I have attached, you'll see what I
mean by a four-seater. (And no, that's not a photo I took,
though I've seen that sort of behavior often.)
the young woman grabbed the four-seater, put her feet on two of
the seats and her bag on the seat next to her.
By the time he r friends boarded, the car was "standing room
only".
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