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#Post#: 23318--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: LurkingGurl
Date: January 4, 2019, 3:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jem link ---
>
> [quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=925.msg23312#msg23312
date=1546635281]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg23310#msg23310
date=1546635137]
>
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think if someone asked, you could have said, "I'm sorry, there
really isn't enough space."
[/quote]
Agreed. I think that the person could respond with, "Oh, it's
fine," and sit down though.
[/quote]
That would be rude. Not only should you not try to squeeze
yourself into a space you won't fit, you certainly shouldn't try
to do it after being told no.
#Post#: 23321--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Jem
Date: January 4, 2019, 3:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain link ---
>
> [quote author=Jem link=topic=925.msg23313#msg23313
date=1546635474]
> [quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=925.msg23312#msg23312
date=1546635281]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg23310#msg23310
date=1546635137]
>
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think if someone asked, you could have said, "I'm sorry, there
really isn't enough space."
[/quote]
Agreed. I think that the person could respond with, "Oh, it's
fine," and sit down though.
[/quote]
That would be rude. Not only should you not try to squeeze
yourself into a space you won't fit, you certainly shouldn't try
to do it after being told no.
[/quote]
I think that is debatable. If a person believes there is space
for them, and they squeeze into the space, then they do.
#Post#: 23322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: LurkingGurl
Date: January 4, 2019, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jem link ---
>
> [quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=925.msg23318#msg23318 date=1546636150]
> [quote author=Jem link=topic=925.msg23313#msg23313
date=1546635474]
> [quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=925.msg23312#msg23312
date=1546635281]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg23310#msg23310
date=1546635137]
>
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think if someone asked, you could have said, "I'm sorry, there
really isn't enough space."
[/quote]
Agreed. I think that the person could respond with, "Oh, it's
fine," and sit down though.
[/quote]
That would be rude. Not only should you not try to squeeze
yourself into a space you won't fit, you certainly shouldn't try
to do it after being told no.
[/quote]
I think that is debatable. If a person believes there is space
for them, and they squeeze into the space, then they do.
[/quote]
If they're just going to do what they want regardless, why are
they even asking?
That's why I recommended that the OP just sit across the two
seats. Another plus sized person can then also sit there with
the two of them taking up 3 seats. What's the next person going
to do, shove them each to the side? Sit on them?
It's not ideal. But, then, it's what some have to do to get the
same accommodation that people who are smaller get on a regular
basis.
And the only solution really, is for whoever runs the trains, to
provide more cars so there's more seating.
#Post#: 23330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: GardenGal
Date: January 4, 2019, 6:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I would stand, rather than be squished, but if I couldn't stand
for health reasons I'd just endure.
#Post#: 23334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Isisnin
Date: January 4, 2019, 7:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
> OP here...
>
> I've got arthritic knees and a herniated disk, standing for 45
minutes would be very painful, so I'll sit squished.
>
> coincidentally, this morning I had the aisle seat on a three
seater, and the guy by the window was plus sized to the point
that he actually took up a large part of the middle seat. The
train wasn't that crowded, so no one asked to sit in the middle
seat. There wouldn't have been room for anyone larger than a
child.
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
The best solution to that situation would be to say "I'll just
move over." Then slide over to the window guy, leaving the
narrow edge by the aisle to the new person.
#Post#: 23336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: wolfie
Date: January 4, 2019, 7:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain link ---
>
> [quote author=Jem link=topic=925.msg23321#msg23321
date=1546636802]
> [quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=925.msg23318#msg23318 date=1546636150]
> [quote author=Jem link=topic=925.msg23313#msg23313
date=1546635474]
> [quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=925.msg23312#msg23312
date=1546635281]
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg23310#msg23310
date=1546635137]
>
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think if someone asked, you could have said, "I'm sorry, there
really isn't enough space."
[/quote]
Agreed. I think that the person could respond with, "Oh, it's
fine," and sit down though.
[/quote]
That would be rude. Not only should you not try to squeeze
yourself into a space you won't fit, you certainly shouldn't try
to do it after being told no.
[/quote]
I think that is debatable. If a person believes there is space
for them, and they squeeze into the space, then they do.
[/quote]
If they're just going to do what they want regardless, why are
they even asking?
That's why I recommended that the OP just sit across the two
seats. Another plus sized person can then also sit there with
the two of them taking up 3 seats. What's the next person going
to do, shove them each to the side? Sit on them?
It's not ideal. But, then, it's what some have to do to get the
same accommodation that people who are smaller get on a regular
basis.
And the only solution really, is for whoever runs the trains, to
provide more cars so there's more seating.
[/quote]
Usually those issues only happen during "rush hour" or prime X
days (like say prime shopping days in Christmas, or days of
sports events). it's not practical to add cars to a train in the
middle of the day and then take them away again when they aren't
needed.
#Post#: 23340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: guest657
Date: January 4, 2019, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [quote]I don't think it's rude or "despicable" to put your
coat on an empty seat. That's pretty extreme hyperbole. If
someone asked to sit down and you refused, yes that is rude.
--- End Quote ---
I said, "Putting your belongings on a second seat with the
intention of preventing shy or timid people from having the same
comfort you are having, is despicable and rude." That's clear,
surely? By all means spread out, if the train is half empty. But
don't do it on a train that you know is going to fill up, and
then when it does, determinedly ignore the people looking for a
seat in the hope that they won't be assertive enough to stand
over you and say "EXCUSE ME! Is anyone sitting there? No? Can
you move your stuff then?"
--- Quote ---
> And if you think discouraging squeezers is about taking
advantage of the "shy and timid", and nobody chooses to squash
up on larger women for reasons other than being unable to stand
comfortably --- well, I'm very glad for you, and hope you never
have some of the experiences I have had on public
transportation.
--- End Quote ---
I'm a fair size, and I had a 45-minute train journey to work for
25 years. I hardly ever encountered creeps of the kind you
describe, and on the rare occasions when I did, flipping out the
marlinspike on my Swiss Army knife and tucking it between him
and me worked like a charm. On the other hand, people hogging
two seats and feigning deafness when asked to clear one of them
were a daily hazard.
--- Quote ---
> If my coat or bag will discourage a creepy opportunist, I'm
all for not being an easy mark.
--- End Quote ---
But it isn't very likely to. All he has to do is request you to
move it, and you can hardly refuse if asked point-blank. So you
will certainly be inconveniencing innocent fellow passengers
daily, on just the off-chance of very occasionally putting off a
creep.
[/quote]
Wow.
You regularly brandish a knife on public transit, but consider
*a coat* to be some kind of sinister intimidation? That's...
that's a perspective I find hard to fathom.
I'm not talking about denying anyone space they need. I'm
talking about nonverbal cues and making spaces more or less
desirable.
I don't particularly want anyone sitting next to me. I'm not
going to block them. But I'm not going to advertise "Hey! Here's
an open seat! Take this one first!" either.
If someone is too "shy and timid" to say, "May I?" Then I have
no idea how they could even function on public transport
unassisted in the first place.
And yeah, actually, forcing people to look you in the eye and
speak to you like a human being actually does cut down on the
number of lowlifes who try to slide into your personal space for
icky or pickpocket purposes. At least it did for me.
Id heard the pen is more powerful than the sword, but I didn't
realize the coat is more powerful than a knife, LOL.
#Post#: 23357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Hanna
Date: January 5, 2019, 5:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain link ---
>
> Just take up two seats so it never happens again. If another
plus sized person takes the aisle, you can move over a bit so
that you both have enough room.
>
> This might be unfair to other people but it is what it is.
>
> I guess actually it's only unfair to one hypothetical person
who would have to stand. But, if you let them sit, then you
would have to stand. And you're not hypothetical.
>
> I think it's more reasonable to expect one more person to
stand than to suffer the loss of feeling in one's limbs because
the seats do not accommodate you properly.
>
--- End Quote ---
If the seats are small enough that a person naturally takes up
more than one, I agree with just going ahead and taking up two
seats. Because effectively, that seat is already gone anyway,
and I don’t think anyone should have to be squished in the
manner that OP described.
Clearly that 3rd person had some kind of problem judging the
space and their own size when they sat down. No one is trying to
deny others a comfortable seat, but we aren’t talking about a
comfortable seat here, we are talking about one person making
two others, and likely themselves, very uncomfortable.
Someone mentioned morality upthread. This is not a moral issue
unless you want to talk about the morality of believing only the
littlest among us ever should be allowed to sit down. Most
public transport seats accommodate only an armless person no
taller than 5’3” and no heavier than 120lbs comfortably, and
even only for about 5 minutes. Morally people are not entitled
to anything more than a ride. Thus first come, first served for
the seats (barring physical disabilities) seems like the only
fair way to handle it.
Also, I think the molded seats are a suggestion, rather than a
fact of law. Without them many people would just sprawl
everywhere without consideration for others, even if they didn’t
require the space. If a person’s body physically takes up more
space than that, the laws of physics come into play.
#Post#: 23358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: Hanna
Date: January 5, 2019, 5:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
> OP here...
>
> I've got arthritic knees and a herniated disk, standing for 45
minutes would be very painful, so I'll sit squished.
>
> coincidentally, this morning I had the aisle seat on a three
seater, and the guy by the window was plus sized to the point
that he actually took up a large part of the middle seat. The
train wasn't that crowded, so no one asked to sit in the middle
seat. There wouldn't have been room for anyone larger than a
child.
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
In this case I would say, “That just won’t work.”
I don’t think anyone has the right to sit on you.
#Post#: 23842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Would you say something, or just endure?
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: January 11, 2019, 9:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hanna link ---
>
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=925.msg23310#msg23310
date=1546635137]
> OP here...
>
> I've got arthritic knees and a herniated disk, standing for 45
minutes would be very painful, so I'll sit squished.
>
> coincidentally, this morning I had the aisle seat on a three
seater, and the guy by the window was plus sized to the point
that he actually took up a large part of the middle seat. The
train wasn't that crowded, so no one asked to sit in the middle
seat. There wouldn't have been room for anyone larger than a
child.
>
> Hypothetically, though ... if someone had asked ot sit in the
middle seat, I would have had to stand up to let them sit down,
and then there wouldn't have been enough room for me to sit.
In that hypothetical situation, is it OK to say "no"?
>
--- End Quote ---
In this case I would say, “That just won’t work.”
I don’t think anyone has the right to sit on you.
[/quote]
Agree.
And I also agree with the idea of sliding over toward the other
guy and leaving the narrow space next to the aisle
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