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       #Post#: 22845--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: lakey Date: January 1, 2019, 11:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I prefer the idea of people spending Christmas with family,
       however, the reality is that an 18 year old university student
       needs to start making her own decisions. I don't think it's a
       matter of what is more fun for her, or rudeness. I think it is a
       matter of progressing into adulthood.
       Often young adults break away from their parents in various
       ways, sometimes in more serious ways than this. This is actually
       a pretty harmless way for her to establish her independence from
       her parents.
       #Post#: 22855--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: guest657 Date: January 1, 2019, 12:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If John feels so strongly that Christmas is for family, I wonder
       what his reasons are for not spending it with extended family on
       either side?
       My DH and I have an inside joke from when we were dating and
       working out how much couple time we wanted vs alone time:
       "How can I miss you if you won't leave?"
       Getting the family together for Christmas is special when people
       are traveling in from other places, or taking time off from
       work, or otherwise taking time out of their usual routine to
       spend the day together. When you all live together anyway, and
       you don't have any plans to see relatives or do anything out of
       the ordinary ...it's just another Tuesday, plus church.
       The best way for John to spend meaningful time with Jessica is
       to talk to her about what makes family time meaningful to her,
       and think about ways their traditions can grow and change as the
       kids grow up.
       #Post#: 22862--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: OnyxBird Date: January 1, 2019, 1:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Aside from others' excellent points about independence and
       forcing the issue producing resentment, there are an enormous
       number of ways to celebrate holidays, so it's pretty much
       inevitable that whichever one you choose violates someone's idea
       of the One Right and True Way To Celebrate[sup]TM[/sup].
       For example:
       [quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=915.msg22808#msg22808
       date=1546320839]
       For reasons I won't go into, John, his wife and kids (Jessica
       and her younger brother) do not visit with relatives on
       Christmas Day.
       [/quote]
       It would never have entered my mind to need to justify a nuclear
       family spending Christmas at their own home without visiting or
       hosting extended family. My family has rarely spent Christmas
       Day with extended relatives, and has a similarly low-key
       traditions as John's family (but with even less scheduled
       togetherness--we do usually hang out together much of Christmas
       afternoon, but not because we're expected to XYZ activity as a
       family). Yet clearly, for many people (presumably including the
       OP), spending Christmas Day with extended family is the norm and
       John's family is diverging from "custom" by spending the day
       with just the nuclear family. Yet I bet John wouldn't appreciate
       someone informing him that Christmas Day should be reserved for
       spending time with the extended family and that he can have his
       intimate nuclear family celebration either before or after
       Christmas, but not on the day itself.
       [quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=915.msg22808#msg22808
       date=1546320839]
       John was pretty upset and hurt over this. To be clear, he had no
       objection to Jessica spending time at the beach with her
       friends, but felt she should do this either before or after
       Christmas - and that Christmas Day should be reserved for
       family. He asked what everyone thought.
       [/quote]
       How, exactly? To spend time at the beach with her friends, she
       has to be at the beach when the friends are going to be there.
       If Christmas is when all her friends are going to the beach,
       then she can't just pick another time and expect all the friends
       to change their plans accordingly. Christmas Day was on a
       Tuesday, so if they were at the beach the for the week of
       Christmas (i.e., weekend to weekend), only going for the portion
       before or the portion after Christmas would take a substantial
       chunk out of the week. Going for the full week except for
       Christmas Day itself would require a full additional round trip
       between home and the beach. And either option requires her to
       have independent travel arrangements, rather than, e.g.,
       carpooling to the beach with her friends. (Not to mention
       missing out on any special Christmas festivities that she and
       her friends were planning to share.)
       On the other hand, she lives with her family. They could have a
       gift exchange, family movie/board game time, and a walk around
       the neighborhood any day. The neighborhood Christmas lights
       probably don't go up for one day only, so even that could
       presumably be done any weekend or other day off either during
       Advent or shortly after Christmas. She does not get to spend
       leisure time at the beach with these friends every day or every
       week.
       #Post#: 22864--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: LurkingGurl Date: January 1, 2019, 2:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree that John is right to feel hurt.
       There aren't a lot of holidays that center around family,
       Christmas being pretty much the main one.
       There are plenty of other weeks that she can run off with her
       friends.
       Frankly, as her parent, I would let her go.  But, then I would
       re-examine what I felt were my obligations to an 18 year old who
       was making decisions to prioritize her friends and boyfriend
       over a holiday that was very important to me and our family.
       
       There are a lot of benefits to having a tight knit family.  If
       they were expecting her to celebrate her birthday or New Year's
       with them, I would feel differently.  But, Christmas is
       different.
       For some families, it's New Year's that is the main family
       holiday.  I know folks that could bow out of their Christmas
       family celebration but would move heaven and earth to make sure
       they were there for NYE!
       
       The fact is that she knows that Christmas is an important family
       holiday and she is choosing to put herself first.  She can do
       that, but then maybe John will stop putting her first as well.
       
       I can understand a young person chafing at family obligations if
       there are too many, but growing up means making tough choices.
       And there are consequences to the choices we make.
       #Post#: 22865--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: LurkingGurl Date: January 1, 2019, 2:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=OnyxBird link=topic=915.msg22862#msg22862
       date=1546371830]
       To spend time at the beach with her friends, she has to be at
       the beach when the friends are going to be there. If Christmas
       is when all her friends are going to the beach, then she can't
       just pick another time and expect all the friends to change
       their plans accordingly. Christmas Day was on a Tuesday, so if
       they were at the beach the for the week of Christmas (i.e.,
       weekend to weekend), only going for the portion before or the
       portion after Christmas would take a substantial chunk out of
       the week. Going for the full week except for Christmas Day
       itself would require a full additional round trip between home
       and the beach. And either option requires her to have
       independent travel arrangements, rather than, e.g., carpooling
       to the beach with her friends. (Not to mention missing out on
       any special Christmas festivities that she and her friends were
       planning to share.)
       On the other hand, she lives with her family. They could have a
       gift exchange, family movie/board game time, and a walk around
       the neighborhood any day. The neighborhood Christmas lights
       probably don't go up for one day only, so even that could
       presumably be done any weekend or other day off either during
       Advent or shortly after Christmas. She does not get to spend
       leisure time at the beach with these friends every day or every
       week.
       [/quote]
       
       She could also tell her friends, "I can go right after
       Christmas."  And she would establish herself as someone who puts
       her family first.
       Yes, it would mean she might have to get herself there, but then
       she is 18 and an adult.  Adults take care of business.  They
       make decisions based on their values, not when, or if, they can
       get a ride.
       #Post#: 22871--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: Amara Date: January 1, 2019, 2:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This just seems so obvious to me, though I readily recognize it
       is my opinion only.
       John and his wife should consider themselves fortunate their
       daughter spent 17 Christmas days with them; younger teens are
       often chafing to get out of family activities after gifts have
       been opened and being with their friends.
       She may still be being supported by them but she is an adult. I
       would hope that John would be able to be proud that they raised
       an independent young woman who is beginning to recognize the
       importance of her choices and boundaries. The parents apparently
       did a good job.They should let her go. Tell her they'll miss her
       terribly but wish her a great time. Ask if she is willing to
       call or Skype on Christmas day. Enjoy what she tells them and
       participate in a bit of excitement at her holiday choice. They
       should show her that her independence is as important to them as
       to her. And they should never try to guilt her or make the old
       tradition into a jail cell. Her breaking away is not unusual but
       it is a sign that they should begin to re-think the holiday
       traditions to suit John and his wife because they can't, and I
       hope they would not want to, force it onto their daughter and
       son forever. They'd end up as one of those people who write in
       here because "it's faaaaaaaamily" and "it's traaaaaadition" are
       used as balls and chains and resentment builds up to toxic
       levels and eventual implosion.
       I have no doubt there is sadness in the change but there is also
       potential. I myself made a major change for Christmas Day this
       year and damnit, it felt great. I am not going back.
       #Post#: 22873--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: Luci Date: January 1, 2019, 3:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As a parent, I agree with "let them go if you want them to come
       back." Of course the parents are disappointed, but that’s life.
       #Post#: 22876--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: LurkingGurl Date: January 1, 2019, 3:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Amara link=topic=915.msg22871#msg22871
       date=1546375615]
       They'd end up as one of those people who write in here because
       "it's faaaaaaaamily" and "it's traaaaaadition" are used as balls
       and chains and resentment builds up to toxic levels and eventual
       implosion.
       [/quote]
       As the mother of several adult children who made a very
       successful transition to being productive and self-supporting
       adults, I think making fun of family and tradition to be rather
       offensive.
       It's why my kids are successful and self-supporting, not in
       spite of it.
       
       There are times when families use traditions or the family card
       to control their offspring.  But, this girl is not
       self-supporting and really, hardly an adult.  If she still
       relies on her daddy to put a roof over her head and doesn't see
       that that might create certain obligations for her, then she is
       pretty foolish.
       Just as you can make fun of family and tradition, I can make fun
       of young people who like to pretend they are adults when someone
       else's sweat puts a roof over their head.
       
       The daughter should do what she wants because she's only young
       once?  We are all only as young today as we ever are once.
       Maybe the parents should stop underwriting their daughter's life
       and enjoy their money themselves.  John and his wife might
       really rather enjoy Christmas doing something much more
       interesting too--a cruise perhaps?  Maybe go to a resort and
       have massages and chef made dinners?  Maybe a ski vacation?
       It cuts both ways.
       #Post#: 22882--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: Hmmm Date: January 1, 2019, 4:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think at 18, she has the right to decide how she wants to
       spend her Christmas as long as she is funding it. I can
       understand the parents and brother being hurt and disappointed
       that she'd rather spend it with her friends than with her
       family. However, just because they are hurt doesn't mean it is
       wrong. I think it best to wish her well and tell her to have a
       good time. And then the next year she can decide if she missed
       having her holiday with her family or prefers to spend it with
       friends.
       #Post#: 22883--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Young adult spending Christmas with friends rather than fami
       ly?
       By: guest657 Date: January 1, 2019, 4:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Wow.
       Parents trying to control their adult children with money, or
       punishing them for failing to show due fealty is the very
       definition of toxic family dynamics.
       It is developmentally normal for teens and young adults to
       prioritize friends, career, and socializing over lots of family
       togetherness, and to want to shake up family traditions into a
       new, more flexible, form.
       It is not emotionally normal or healthy for a parent to become
       vindictive or threaten to cut off their children. Especially
       over a single missed celebration, that apparently was politely
       discussed with the family in advance.
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