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#Post#: 22332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: December 26, 2018, 8:44 pm
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My experience on the NYC subway is that children who are shorter
than about 4'10" are not SAFE on a crowded subway unless they
are sitting down--there isn't anywhere to hold on, except the
poles. And the poles are often blocked by grownups.
Also, in crowded places, it's easier to keep track of your kid
if you can put her in "a spot" and trust that she will be there.
Grownups on the NYC subway routinely get up from their seats to
offer a place to any kid shorter than a sort-of-short adult. And
then we often also offer the seat next to them to their parent.
There there's age and attention span, and fidgety stuff. A
10-year-old can be trusted to stand without whining or fidgeting
for a longish journey. But a 6-y-o can't, really--not even a
generally well-behaved 6yo. Any kid younger than that, whether
they're mine or some other passengers' (or waiting-room
person's), I want them in a spot so they will be more patient
and easier to control.
Safety changes the etiquette.
#Post#: 22334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: December 26, 2018, 10:12 pm
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--- Quote from: oogyda link ---
>
> [quote author=Rainbow link=topic=893.msg22252#msg22252
date=1545822446]
> In their place, I would have sat with my child on the platform
(where noise wouldn't be so much of an issue) and wait it out.
At most, if it didn't subside, I would hop on and off, maybe two
stops at a time, to minimize bother to others (the volume of
those little lungs was really something, believe me). Note that
the metro system was reinforced for Xmas day, and the waiting
time was about 3 minutes.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
This is completely unrealistic with one child, much less three.
I can only assume that you do not have children and have not had
much exposure to them. I apologize if my assumptions are
incorrect.
[/quote]
Can you imagine? Hopping on and off a relatively busy subway
system with three kids and two adults? Plus a stroller?
#Post#: 22339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: Rainbow
Date: December 27, 2018, 2:48 am
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Again, thank you for your responses! It is very interesting to
read other perspectives :)
It's true that I don't have children myself, although I do have
frequent exposure to them. I ran it by a friend who has a
similar family to the one in the story, along with your
responses, and she was quite horrified. Unprompted, she
immediately suggested the same option I did (i.e, hopping on and
off) and said that no way would she allow other passengers to be
subjected to a kid of hers screaming at the top of her lungs in
a closed carriage for that long. Note that one of her kids is
also fussy, so she has first-hand experience with that. She
obviously has the advantage of being local, so she knows exactly
how our metro system is set up. I understand that what I
suggested may not be feasible in other metro systems.
My comment about other families managing was in answer to those
saying that it was safer for little children to sit than to
stand. I was just pointing out that no-one else seems to think
that in here, children generally stand with no safety issues at
all. Most parents make children stand up for elderly people or
people carrying parcels, etc. It is perfectly safe here.
--- Quote from: oogyda link ---
>
> Absolutely no one is suggesting that everyone else should
disembark to leave one family with the carriage to themselves.
We are simply saying that if it bothered you that much, you
should go somewhere else.
>
--- End Quote ---
I probably didn't phrase it well. I mean that the family was
bothering the whole carriage (you could tell). You guys say that
the one who's bothered should take action, not the family who's
causing the bother. Therefore, it follows that everyone who's
bothered should disembark. If everyone who was bothered had
disembarked, they would effectively have had the carriage to
themselves.
--- Quote from: Winterlight link ---
>
> [...] The other kids sitting down seems reasonable, the
parents had enough on their hands without potentially having the
little ones roaming the carriage, or falling over as the train
lurches.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just one parent was engaged with the tantruming child at a time.
The other was standing to the side with the empty stroller,
doing nothing (probably bracing themselves for the next go). The
older children were perfectly quiet, deeply embarrassed, and
unlikely to roam the carriage. Actually, this is not something I
have seen in here. Noise and activity levels may vary (which is
normal and understandable, up to a point), but children always
stay close to their parents. I have never seen children going
up/down carriages, and I'm a frequent traveller. I was honestly
surprised to see so many suggesting it as a likely option. It
shows how different all of our experiences/expectations are! :)
Again, in the grand scheme of things it's not a biggie, I just
thought it would be interesting to discuss. And it has!
#Post#: 22345--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: guest657
Date: December 27, 2018, 6:10 am
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I'm still curious whether you would have taken the seat next to
the crying baby if it were offered.
#Post#: 22351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: Rainbow
Date: December 27, 2018, 8:24 am
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I wouldn't have taken the seat, but only because I prefer
standing up. I'm sure others would have, though. The people who
were standing next to the child were subjected to the same level
of noise than if they had been sitting. It really wouldn't have
made a difference.
#Post#: 22358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: oogyda
Date: December 27, 2018, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rainbow link ---
>
>
>
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=893.msg22291#msg22291
date=1545846881]
> Absolutely no one is suggesting that everyone else should
disembark to leave one family with the carriage to themselves.
We are simply saying that if it bothered you that much, you
should go somewhere else.
>
--- End Quote ---
I probably didn't phrase it well. I mean that the family was
bothering the whole carriage (you could tell). You guys say that
the one who's bothered should take action, not the family who's
causing the bother. Therefore, it follows that everyone who's
bothered should disembark. If everyone who was bothered had
disembarked, they would effectively have had the carriage to
themselves.
[/quote]
It depends entirely to what level someone is bothered. Some
people may be "bothered" enough to disembark. Others might be
"bothered" enough to glare at the family, but not disembark.
Still others may not be "bothered" enough to even notice.
I definitely think you should have disembarked and waited the 3
minutes for the next train.
#Post#: 22412--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: Tea Drinker
Date: December 27, 2018, 6:22 pm
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I don't know where "here" is, but depending on the design of
your metro system, getting on and off trains every couple of
stops could have significantly increased the amount of time that
strangers were subjected to the noise: now it's not just an
n-minute ride, it's that plus one or more several-minute waits
for trains. And how annoying the noise would be depends whether
the station is underground or outdoors, and for an underground
station, the acoustics vary, as does the amount of noise the
trains make. (Montreal trains are quieter than New York or
Boston's; here in Boston the green line is especially noisy
going into and out of Government Center.)
#Post#: 22431--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: Kiwipinball
Date: December 27, 2018, 9:41 pm
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I also think there's a big difference about where this is
happening. If this had happened at a restaurant or movie or
something, I'd 100% agree that the screaming child should be
removed. But here, the parents were presumably taking the metro
because they needed to (whether they were going somewhere or
trying to get home). And the other people on the metro, while
presumably not thrilled, weren't really having a good time
ruined. Public transportation is necessary (I'm using that
somewhat loosely) to get where you need to go - I don't think
most people expect to have a marvellous time on the public
transportation - once they get where they're going, they can get
away from the screaming child. I would not expect parents to get
off and on the metro repeatedly to reduce other people's
exposure. I expect that in some public places, but not public
transportation.
#Post#: 22444--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: Aleko
Date: December 28, 2018, 1:55 am
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--- Quote ---
> I definitely think you should have disembarked and waited the
3 minutes for the next train.
>
--- End Quote ---
And what exactly would all that effort (because it certainly is
a real effort to get 3 kids and a stroller on and off a crowded
train, even when one of them isn't having a screaming fit) have
achieved? They would just have inconvenienced a fresh
carriageful of people. Then presumably you think they should
have got off again at the next stop and waited another 3 minutes
to inflict the screaming on another carriageful? And so on? Good
grief.
#Post#: 22449--------------------------------------------------
Re: Screaming child in metro
DIR By: oogyda
Date: December 28, 2018, 7:12 am
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--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [quote]I definitely think you should have disembarked and
waited the 3 minutes for the next train.
>
--- End Quote ---
And what exactly would all that effort (because it certainly is
a real effort to get 3 kids and a stroller on and off a crowded
train, even when one of them isn't having a screaming fit) have
achieved? They would just have inconvenienced a fresh
carriageful of people. Then presumably you think they should
have got off again at the next stop and waited another 3 minutes
to inflict the screaming on another carriageful? And so on? Good
grief.
[/quote]
Aleko! Hold on! I was responding to the OP in my post. She
had used some dirty logic to surmise I was saying that everyone
who was annoyed should have left the carriage. I had said it
would depend on the level to which a person was annoyed and that
she should have disembarked (since this apparently really
annoyed her).
I agree that the family with the screaming child should not be
expected to do so.
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