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       #Post#: 30783--------------------------------------------------
       Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
       By: GardenGal Date: May 9, 2019, 2:47 pm
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       [quote author=Gellchom link=topic=870.msg30772#msg30772
       date=1557426712]
       [quote author=lisastitch link=topic=870.msg21392#msg21392
       date=1544729261]
       [quote author=gramma dishes link=topic=870.msg21371#msg21371
       date=1544715686]
       [quote author=Songbird link=topic=870.msg21362#msg21362
       date=1544712518]
       In my job I sometimes receive gifts from vendors. One December
       our vendor sent each of us a gift from a florist.  It was a
       centerpiece created from pine branches and those shiny glass
       balls used for Christmas tree ornaments, clearly intended to be
       used at Christmas dinner.  I'm Jewish.  I thanked the vendor and
       gave the gift to a coworker who didn't do business with that
       vendor.
       [/quote]
       Honestly what you have described just sounds like an ordinary
       winter flat-surface decoration to me!  Unless the balls said
       "Merry Christmas" or had pictures of the nativity scene on them,
       I wouldn't necessarily think of them as being Christmasy as much
       as just seasonal!
       [/quote]
       But the season is Christmas.  Between pine branches (as if from
       a Christmas tree) and ornaments to be put on a Christmas tree,
       it reflects the Christmas season.
       There are people of other faiths who do choose to celebrate the
       secular Christmas season (snow, snowmen, poinsettias, etc.) if
       they don't celebrate the religious aspects.  However, assuming
       that someone of another faith is happy to celebrate the secular
       parts of Christmas is a pretty big assumption.
       [/quote]
       Accidentally hit "disagree" when I meant to hit "agree," and I
       don't know how to fix it.
       I think that this is very well put.  I know it's hard for people
       to understand, especially because many non-Christians do do some
       Christmasy things, but this kind of thing makes many of us feel
       uncomfortable.  No, it's not "offensive," and it's not pushing
       religion on anyone, and, yes, of course we understand that the
       intentions are kind and a gift is a gift, at worst a slightly
       tone-deaf one.  But it often still feels like pressure to
       assimilate to the dominant culture, irrespective of any
       religious content.  Secular vs. religious simply isn't the
       point.  I know people are trying to be inclusive, and in their
       favorite holiday at that.  But many of us would rather be
       appreciated for who and what we are than being told that
       Christmas is "everyone's holiday," so we should join in.
       In fact, I am delighted to be invited to attend, as a guest, a
       friend's religious celebration than being expected to join in a
       general secular celebration myself.  To me, a poinsettia looks
       Christmas-y, even though of course not religious.  I would not
       be comfortable decorating my home with them -- or holly or shiny
       balls or reindeer or Santa or any of the other secular Christmas
       items.
       [/quote]
       Bingo - you're hit the nail on the head, Gellchom, and put into
       words what I, as an atheist (raised Jewish), have been feeling
       for over 50 years.  I think that growing up in a minority
       religion, even one I abandoned while in my teens, makes you
       aware of what the folks in majority religions take for granted.
       Even among atheists I know, those who were raised as Christians
       are often fond of saying (and I'm sure they truly believe this)
       that Christmas is a secular holiday these days.  Nope, sorry, it
       isn't a secular holiday - you wouldn't be doing what you were
       doing on that particular day if you had not been raised
       Christian.  For you (general "you") it now might feel secular,
       but to me (and probably to other atheists raised in the Jewish
       faith), Christmas always feels at least slightly religious, even
       if in many households it is mostly about visiting family and
       sharing gifts, not about the "reason for the season."
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