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#Post#: 21372--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: Rose Red Date: December 13, 2018, 9:42 am
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Lets be honest. When most people think of poinsettias, they
think of Christmas (right or wrong). But unless a gift is
intended to be an insult on purpose, I'd just regift it.
Personally, I don't depend on workplaces for thoughtful or
meaningful gifts. Unless it's cold hard cash ;) :D
#Post#: 21390--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: Aleko Date: December 13, 2018, 12:54 pm
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[quote]To someone who is Christian and religious, a Christmas
tree might seem secular because it really is an aspect of the
secular celebration of Christmas rather than the religious
celebration. But from a totally non-Christian point of view, it
is still an aspect of Christmas.
[/quote]
Sure. But the difference is that pretty much nobody brings an
evergreen tree indoors and decorate its with baubles, tinsel and
lights except as part of the celebration of Christmas, whereas
plenty of people who like brightly-coloured indoor pot plants
will buy (or grow) poinsettias to cheer up their home in winter,
just because they are so bright.
#Post#: 21391--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: lowspark Date: December 13, 2018, 1:12 pm
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=870.msg21390#msg21390
date=1544727295]
[quote]To someone who is Christian and religious, a Christmas
tree might seem secular because it really is an aspect of the
secular celebration of Christmas rather than the religious
celebration. But from a totally non-Christian point of view, it
is still an aspect of Christmas.
[/quote]
Sure. But the difference is that pretty much nobody brings an
evergreen tree indoors and decorate its with baubles, tinsel and
lights except as part of the celebration of Christmas, whereas
plenty of people who like brightly-coloured indoor pot plants
will buy (or grow) poinsettias to cheer up their home in winter,
just because they are so bright.
[/quote]
Possibly, I don't know. As I said earlier, if someone gave me a
poinsettia as a gift, I'd accept it graciously and probably
plant it outdoors at some point. But it would never occur to me
to go buy one on my own just because it's bright. If I were
buying some flowers or even a potted plant as a decoration, a
poinsettia wouldn't even cross my mind.
I don't know how to explain it well, but yes, a poinsettia is,
to me, more of a Christmas symbol than a winter symbol. But
different than a Christmas tree or Santa.
Again, I'm speaking for myself, not for others.
#Post#: 21392--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: lisastitch Date: December 13, 2018, 1:27 pm
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[quote author=gramma dishes link=topic=870.msg21371#msg21371
date=1544715686]
[quote author=Songbird link=topic=870.msg21362#msg21362
date=1544712518]
In my job I sometimes receive gifts from vendors. One December
our vendor sent each of us a gift from a florist. It was a
centerpiece created from pine branches and those shiny glass
balls used for Christmas tree ornaments, clearly intended to be
used at Christmas dinner. I'm Jewish. I thanked the vendor and
gave the gift to a coworker who didn't do business with that
vendor.
[/quote]
Honestly what you have described just sounds like an ordinary
winter flat-surface decoration to me! Unless the balls said
"Merry Christmas" or had pictures of the nativity scene on them,
I wouldn't necessarily think of them as being Christmasy as much
as just seasonal!
[/quote]
But the season is Christmas. Between pine branches (as if from
a Christmas tree) and ornaments to be put on a Christmas tree,
it reflects the Christmas season.
There are people of other faiths who do choose to celebrate the
secular Christmas season (snow, snowmen, poinsettias, etc.) if
they don't celebrate the religious aspects. However, assuming
that someone of another faith is happy to celebrate the secular
parts of Christmas is a pretty big assumption.
#Post#: 21398--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: Songbird Date: December 13, 2018, 3:08 pm
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[quote author=gramma dishes link=topic=870.msg21371#msg21371
date=1544715686]
[quote author=Songbird link=topic=870.msg21362#msg21362
date=1544712518]
In my job I sometimes receive gifts from vendors. One December
our vendor sent each of us a gift from a florist. It was a
centerpiece created from pine branches and those shiny glass
balls used for Christmas tree ornaments, clearly intended to be
used at Christmas dinner. I'm Jewish. I thanked the vendor and
gave the gift to a coworker who didn't do business with that
vendor.
[/quote]
Honestly what you have described just sounds like an ordinary
winter flat-surface decoration to me! Unless the balls said
"Merry Christmas" or had pictures of the nativity scene on them,
I wouldn't necessarily think of them as being Christmasy as much
as just seasonal!
[/quote]
Pine branches and glass ornaments = Christmas tree. this
centerpiece wasn't shaped like a tree, but ...
#Post#: 21419--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: GardenGal Date: December 13, 2018, 7:20 pm
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[quote author=lowspark link=topic=870.msg21366#msg21366
date=1544714465]
[quote author=Irked Purist link=topic=870.msg21309#msg21309
date=1544656483]
From a severely-secularist viewpoint I can actually see wanting
to detatch as much from the symbols of secular-type Xmas as the
overtly religious ones, whether that stems from being of a
different faith, or just not liking/wanting any of it. And I
sympathise with anyone trying to make that break because it's
quite hard to accomplish and to explain without sounding like
it's massively more objectionable than it truly is, because
plants and snowmen and countless other symbols aren't religious-
nope, but they definitely are Xmassy.
[/quote]
The bolded hits the nail squarely on the head. For example, many
people do not think a Christmas tree is a religious symbol and
simply cannot understand why someone who is Jewish for example,
might not want one in their home.
To someone who is Christian and religious, a Christmas tree
might seem secular because it really is an aspect of the secular
celebration of Christmas rather than the religious celebration.
But from a totally non-Christian point of view, it is still an
aspect of Christmas.
It's understandable that a religious Christian differentiates
between religious and secular. But from a Jewish perspective,
that differentiation doesn't matter. It's still a symbol/ritual
of a holiday I don't celebrate.
But back to the OP, a poinsettia really wouldn't bother me a
bit. But if it did, I would just offer it up to the other people
in the office by saying it just wasn't my cup of tea. It's
easier and more polite than bringing up the religious aspect
which at best is difficult to explain, and at worst, ends up
offending people who did nothing wrong.
[/quote]
Re: the things in red - that's it, exactly! Having been raised
Jewish, there is no such thing in my mind as a "secular"
Christmas. Absolutely everything associated with Christmas
seems at least faintly religious to me.
#Post#: 21427--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: TootsNYC Date: December 13, 2018, 9:41 pm
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and if it's not religious, it's absolutely culturally Christmas.
And for Jews, and some others, that's not their culture.
It's bad etiquette to assume everyone is of the same culture.
#Post#: 21486--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: lisastitch Date: December 14, 2018, 2:40 pm
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[quote author=GardenGal link=topic=870.msg21419#msg21419
date=1544750406]
[quote author=lowspark link=topic=870.msg21366#msg21366
date=1544714465]
[quote author=Irked Purist link=topic=870.msg21309#msg21309
date=1544656483]
From a severely-secularist viewpoint I can actually see wanting
to detatch as much from the symbols of secular-type Xmas as the
overtly religious ones, whether that stems from being of a
different faith, or just not liking/wanting any of it. And I
sympathise with anyone trying to make that break because it's
quite hard to accomplish and to explain without sounding like
it's massively more objectionable than it truly is, because
plants and snowmen and countless other symbols aren't religious-
nope, but they definitely are Xmassy.
[/quote]
The bolded hits the nail squarely on the head. For example, many
people do not think a Christmas tree is a religious symbol and
simply cannot understand why someone who is Jewish for example,
might not want one in their home.
To someone who is Christian and religious, a Christmas tree
might seem secular because it really is an aspect of the secular
celebration of Christmas rather than the religious celebration.
But from a totally non-Christian point of view, it is still an
aspect of Christmas.
It's understandable that a religious Christian differentiates
between religious and secular. But from a Jewish perspective,
that differentiation doesn't matter. It's still a symbol/ritual
of a holiday I don't celebrate.
But back to the OP, a poinsettia really wouldn't bother me a
bit. But if it did, I would just offer it up to the other people
in the office by saying it just wasn't my cup of tea. It's
easier and more polite than bringing up the religious aspect
which at best is difficult to explain, and at worst, ends up
offending people who did nothing wrong.
[/quote]
Re: the things in red - that's it, exactly! Having been raised
Jewish, there is no such thing in my mind as a "secular"
Christmas. Absolutely everything associated with Christmas
seems at least faintly religious to me.
[/quote]
And as a Christian, I really wish we could separate "the mass of
Christ" celebrating His birth, from all the other winter
solstice trappings. I could celebrate both the religious
holiday of Christmas and the secular holiday of winter solstice,
if we could really separate them. We've dragged in things like
Christmas trees, and given them a religious symbolism, and I
have to fight through the secular to observe the religious.
Advent is meant to be a time of reflection, just as Lent is, and
the celebration of the Christmas season (as in the Twelve Days
of Christmas) should start on Christmas. It's very hard to be
reflective and contemplative when the stores are blasting
secular Christmas songs! (One of many reasons I try to do my
Christmas shopping early!)
#Post#: 21499--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: LurkingGurl Date: December 14, 2018, 4:43 pm
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The gift giving itself is related to Christmas. So, why are
they turning up their nose at a plant because they think it's
too Christmassy but not turning up their nose at any gift
whatsoever?
I'm sorry but a "gift" is not an "end of year bonus." And end
of year bonus is when your employer gives you a sum of money for
a job well done. Calling this, or company logo swag an "end of
year bonus" is being rather generous.
And one doesn't usually give "bonuses" to contractors. It's
more like a tip and it comes from the tradition of the Christmas
season. Not the winter solstice. Not just because it's the end
of the year.
So again, if they're so offended why are they accepting anything
at all?
I think in general, no matter what time of year, if someone
gives you a gift, you accept it gracefully. You don't complain
about it. You say "thank-you so much" and get on with your
life.
#Post#: 21505--------------------------------------------------
Re: But you know that's not my Holiday.
By: nuku Date: December 14, 2018, 5:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=870.msg21499#msg21499 date=1544827439]
The gift giving itself is related to Christmas. So, why are
they turning up their nose at a plant because they think it's
too Christmassy but not turning up their nose at any gift
whatsoever?
I'm sorry but a "gift" is not an "end of year bonus." And end
of year bonus is when your employer gives you a sum of money for
a job well done. Calling this, or company logo swag an "end of
year bonus" is being rather generous.
And one doesn't usually give "bonuses" to contractors. It's
more like a tip and it comes from the tradition of the Christmas
season. Not the winter solstice. Not just because it's the end
of the year.
So again, if they're so offended why are they accepting anything
at all?
I think in general, no matter what time of year, if someone
gives you a gift, you accept it gracefully. You don't complain
about it. You say "thank-you so much" and get on with your
life.
[/quote]
Actually, I have known non-Christians who give gifts at the end
of the year as part of New Year's celebrations. And I do
consider pointsettias religious symbols. (I think they're
pretty, too.) There are organizations in the US that do end of
year gifts and parties as a thank-you for employees' work
separate from bonuses (which not all places can do). And I think
they should be culturally and religiously sensitive. Inclusion
is a laudable goal. :)
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