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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 21104--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: IWish
Date: December 11, 2018, 8:24 am
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I agree with Toots. I think the hosts were rude and I don't
fault OP for leaving before dinner was served cooked. If I am
invited for dinner at 5:00 I certainly don't expect to sit down
immediately, but 2 hours is way too long in my opinion.
Especially because it appeared that it would probably extend
even longer. Isn't it called "social HOUR" after all? I'm amazed
that some people think up to 3 hours is acceptable. I would have
had to excuse myself as well.
#Post#: 21110--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: December 11, 2018, 9:26 am
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--- Quote from: TootsNYC link ---
>
> [quote author=Jem link=topic=865.msg21061#msg21061
date=1544477488]
> Was it just the three of you in the situation you described in
the OP? Socializing before dinner is normal in my experience,
but how odd to not have hors d'ouerves or cocktails before
dinner if they intended to socialize for several hours. But also
think it was odd for you to leave an hour after arriving. What
did they say when you announced you were leaving? They were
making dinner and you left before they had a chance to serve it,
and long before it got to the point of "are we EVER going to
eat?"
>
> In general, I think adults should be able to manage their
hunger so that a delay in eating times does not derail them
entirely. If you can't, then eat before social events so you can
focus on socializing rather than your hunger. Here I bet the
hosts assumed socializing before dinner, and frankly, I would
have expected socializing before dinner as opposed to
showupsitdowneat. But I also think gracious hosts let their
guests know what to expect for a timeline (similar to the other
thread about "arrive any time after noon....we'll plan to eat
between one and two...").
>
> In the future, maybe meet at a restaurant.
>
--- End Quote ---
She left before they had a chance to PUT A WHOLE CHICKEN IN THE
OVEN.
I'm sorry, they were phenomenally rude.
It's one thing to socialize while the chicken roasts. But the
chicken wasn't even in the oven, and they were making no move to
put it there.
Honestly, I think what Victoria did was probably the best
possible thing. These hosts don't deserve to have their guests
put that much of their lives on hold.
And going forward, I would say simply have a set of rules you'll
apply. If dinner isn't underway when you walk in the door, maybe
you ask about it: "Are you going to start cooking now? How long
will it take?" And if the answer is not "yes, and about an
hour," then say, "well, I'll have to go in about 2 hours, so
we'll see where things are," and then leave in 2 hours.
As for the topic of conversations--lately I've taken to saying,
"I'm sorry, this isn't a conversation I want to be part of. Can
we talk about something else?"
A distant friend (from high school) called to ask a favor and
then was chatting, and suddenly I realize she's complaining
about all the businesses and companies that have gone out of
business in the last 5 or so years. I interrupted her to say,
"I'm sorry, this is not how I want to spend my time on the phone
with my friends--talking about all the ways our economy is
imploding."
In this case, I was done with the convo anyway, so I said,
"And anyway, I do need to get going; I have to go home" (it was
in the hour after work).
I don't know if she got off the phone so quickly because of
my needing to go home, or because I'd offended her. But if I
offended her, good. That was a shitty sort of way to waste my
time in conversation, to monologue about Sears and Younkers and
Computer City...
I think in your case it would have been perfectly fine to say,
"I'm sorry, I don't know any of these people. Is there something
else we could talk about?" I don't think you have to come up
with the topic of conversation if you're at a loss. They're the
hosts--the onus is on them, actually, to make you feel welcome.
[/quote]
When invited to dinner at a friend's home, I usually expect to
spend 3 hours or so. I don't know if 5pm start was suggested
because it was convenient for the OP to go there straight from
work or if the hosts had planned to serve an early dinner and
got side tracked. But as a guest I always assume dinner will be
served sometime around 7 or 7:30 unless I'm told otherwise. The
OP saw the raw chicken at 5:45. So yeah, the chicken could have
gone into the oven and dinner still ready by 7.
I also think you were rude to your friend on the phone. There
are politer ways to change a topic or quickly get off the phone
other than saying "I don't care if you are concerned about the
economy, your topic of conversation is a waste of my time."
#Post#: 21113--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: VorFemme
Date: December 11, 2018, 9:53 am
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VorGuy is diabetic (diet controlled, mostly, but that means that
meals need to be "on time" or really close to it). I am
pre-diabetic, but edging closer to diabetes (family history,
thyroid condition, & so forth & so on to avoid this turning into
a medical history).
We can adjust when we have to eat by adjusting snacks - but if
someone invites us for dinner at 5 and dinner isn't in the oven
by 6, then our adjustments have been made before we got there
and there may not be anything in my purse to keep our blood
sugar from dropping too far, too fast.
So we'd be leaving, in search of faster food rather than waiting
an unknown period of time between coming in and the beginning of
dinner preparations. Especially if there is nothing being
offered in the way of snacks.
#Post#: 21117--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: NewHomeowner
Date: December 11, 2018, 10:17 am
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I'm with VorFemme. I'm also diabetic, for many years, but I am
also an Extreme Early Bird. On workdays, I'm out of bed before
4am. That means bedtime is 8pm, or close. There's no way I
could eat a meal, then hop into bed at 8pm. Dinnertime, for me,
is usually 4-5pm.
Yes, I can, and do, change schedules to accommodate others, but
I have learned that changing my schedule messes up my blood
sugar. So for a couple of days I have to live with
higher-than-normal blood sugar, and that's very wearing on the
body.
I am *long* past the days of staying up until dawn and sleeping
all day. That should never happen again if I want to live.
So I'm with the OP. I would have left too. Snacks don't do it.
You can still see these friends, but never make plans that
involve a meal, unless it's something that you can bring with
you (like a picnic lunch) and eat on your own.
#Post#: 21132--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: Victoria
Date: December 11, 2018, 11:26 am
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--- Quote from: NewHomeowner link ---
>
> I'm with VorFemme. I'm also diabetic, for many years, but I
am also an Extreme Early Bird. On workdays, I'm out of bed
before 4am. That means bedtime is 8pm, or close. There's no way
I could eat a meal, then hop into bed at 8pm. Dinnertime, for
me, is usually 4-5pm.
> Yes, I can, and do, change schedules to accommodate others,
but I have learned that changing my schedule messes up my blood
sugar. So for a couple of days I have to live with
higher-than-normal blood sugar, and that's very wearing on the
body.
> I am *long* past the days of staying up until dawn and
sleeping all day. That should never happen again if I want to
live.
>
> So I'm with the OP. I would have left too. Snacks don't do
it. You can still see these friends, but never make plans that
involve a meal, unless it's something that you can bring with
you (like a picnic lunch) and eat on your own.
>
--- End Quote ---
I do think part of it is that they know my routine-when we did
volunteer work for the same event, we alternated meeting times
between 6 am and 6 pm because a half of us were pretty vocal
that we're all in bed around 9 or 9:30 pm. So eating at 7 or
7:30 pm is insanely late for me. They also didn't protest too
much when I left because they're used to me staying for 1-2
hours maximum at times, and occasionally I've had to take work
calls or even leave in a rush.
I didn't properly articulate any of that in my original post. I
guess I waiver between the idea that there's an "understood
norm" that I should follow and the idea that they should know me
well enough to know that I was going to be in bed 4ish hours
after stopping by.
#Post#: 21139--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: lowspark
Date: December 11, 2018, 12:14 pm
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I think there are two separate issues here.
1. The couple had a conversation for at least 45 minutes which
didn't include their guest. Certainly it's ok to reminisce about
something which might not include the guest if it's just for a
few minutes and if it is actually engaging, as in a funny story
where the listener can appreciate the humor even if they weren't
there. But I really don't think it's ok to pull out a photo
album EVER unless the guest has requested it or if it was stated
as the purpose of the visit when plans were being made. "Come
over to see our wedding/trip/baby photo album."
2. They invited OP for dinner at 5 but apparently didn't intend
to eat before 7.
I do expect a cocktail hour when I go to dinner at a friend's
house, but during that cocktail hour, something is served.
Cocktails for one, and usually some kind of appetizer.
And in my experience, even if the dinner doesn't go into the
oven till guests have arrived, a good host has already done all
the prep work for dinner so that they can spend time with their
guest(s).
I have done similar. If I know the food needs one hour in the
oven, I pop it in just as the first guest arrives. But then I'm
now done in the kitchen, except for getting everything to the
table just before we eat.
So... dinner at 5, in my book, means we'll probably be sitting
down to a meal between 6 and 6:15. But prior to that, we will
have had a drink and a tidbit to eat, and we will have engaged
in mutually agreeable conversation.
I would not expect my guests to be insanely hungry an hour after
arriving, but then the first food that I offered would be way
before an hour after arriving.
I have a sort of related story to #1 in my post. I had a party
years ago, where I had invited some friend from my high school
days and my friends from work. Turned out that a friend from
work had dated a guy in college who went to my high school.
So... we got out the yearbook so she could see what he looked
like back then.
All well and good but then it started being "old home week"
where the high school friends wanted to paw through the yearbook
and talk about this person and that and generally reminisce.
After a few minutes of that, I noticed that there were suddenly
two factions. Those who were having fun, laughing about the old
days, and those who were sitting there, bored and quiet.
I had to practically physically wrench the yearbook out of their
hands, but I did it and the party was saved. I think a good host
sometimes has to take charge of their party to make sure that
all guests are having a good time.
#Post#: 21141--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: DaDancingPsych
Date: December 11, 2018, 12:26 pm
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For those with medical conditions including diabetes, as your
host, I would want to know about your needs. During the
invitation stage, I would want you to tell me that your
condition requires you to eat at a specific time. I would either
rework the plans so that the meal is served then, work with you
to come up with an accommodation that would keep you healthy, or
let you know that that does not meet my plans, so maybe I could
host on a different day that would allow this. But I would think
it rather irresponsible to not mention that you need a meal at a
specific time and then hope that I can figure that out. I think
that there are polite ways that a guest can make their needs
known.
#Post#: 21153--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: mime
Date: December 11, 2018, 2:54 pm
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This reminds me of a barbecue I went to. It was for lunch,
guests were invited from 11AM until whenever. There were chips
and salsa out for munching right away, and around 1PM the sister
of the host quietly asked when lunch would be ready. By 2PM the
chips and salsa were all gone and the sister was quite a bit
more forceful about getting some food ready. She was definitely
not in the bounds of etiquette, but we were all glad she spoke
up. So the host got out the meat. It was still frozen. I left at
3, very hungry. In that setting it was easier to leave, since
there were a lot of us and the invitation was open-ended.
This friend has a wealth of wonderful qualities that make up for
her lack of hosting skills. So the next year, the sister and me
(and a handful of other guests) offered to contribute to the
barbecue and make it a potluck. That way there was plenty of
food to eat even without brats and burgers. And we all know
better about her timing now!
#Post#: 21156--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: daen
Date: December 11, 2018, 3:31 pm
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If I got an invitation that said "Do you want to eat dinner at
5pm at our house?" I would assume that 5 pm was the time dinner
would be served, because I see "eat dinner at 5 pm" as a
statement of intent to be eating at five.
On the other hand "Do you want to come over for dinner at 5 pm?"
(which is a fairly common wording in my area) is as likely to
mean "arrive at 5" as it is "eat at 5," and that leads to its
own confusion. This has led to my issuing most invitations as
"Would you like to come over for dinner? The meal will be ready
at five, so come over anytime after 4:30."
#Post#: 21166--------------------------------------------------
Re: What should I have done here?
DIR By: malfoyfan13
Date: December 11, 2018, 4:20 pm
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This reminds me of that episode of "The Office" where Pam and
Jim are invited to Michael and Jan's house for dinner and when
they are sitting around chatting Jan remarks about how the osso
buco will take three hours to cook and it's not in the oven yet.
I'd be bothered (and have been so in the past) about being
invited to dinner and finding out nothing's even cooking after
I'd been there for 45 minutes. I get "hangry" if I don't eat
every four hours or so and I think it's rude to ask people over
for a meal and not provide it in a timely fashion. If I knew
ahead of time that the people doing the asking are slowpokes
about getting dinner on the table I would eat beforehand.
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