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       #Post#: 20963--------------------------------------------------
       Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Aleko Date: December 8, 2018, 9:26 am
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       Much hoo-ha this side of the Pond as dozens of current and
       former female employees of the 'Ted Baker' clothing chain accuse
       the founder/CEO and his managers of sexual harassment, nd
       literally thousands want an end to the company's 'hugging
       culture':
  HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46417578
  HTML https://news.sky.com/story/ted-baker-founder-ray-kelvin-stands-aside-over-unwanted-hugs-11574327
  HTML http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/news-features/TMG9541067/Ray-Kelvin-Would-the-real-Ted-Baker-please-stand-up.html
       The sad thing is that I for one have no difficulty fully
       believing both the accusations and Ray Kelvin's bewildered
       assertion of innocence.
       It's said that he started the hugging thing because he had
       arthritis which made shaking hands difficult; and he thought,
       being a laid-back, informal type, why not have everyone in his
       company hugging each other instead of being all stuffed-shirt?
       And it actually might have been quite fun for everyone at first,
       in a young, vibrant company. But all too easy for the man at the
       top to find it so much fun that he honestly fails to notice (a)
       that gradually he has gone past jolly hugs and "giving the
       occasional visiting stockist from the North an impromptu neck
       massage, complete with matey banter" (link 3) to groping and
       sexual innuendo, (b) that the female employees don't seem to be
       enjoying it as much as he is, and (c) that his lieutenants are,
       understandably, exercising the same type of droit de seigneur
       over their departments. Now all his happy 'girls' have risen in
       revolt and are accusing him of god-knows-what disgusting
       behaviour, and he really doesn't understand it at all.
       It's really not unusual. History is littered with instances of
       slave- and serf-owners who were convinced that they were giving
       the workers on their estates a good life, that they were all
       happy and grateful, and that the females among them who he took
       notice of were thrilled and honoured by his attentions - and
       when those same happy grateful workers rose in revolt and burned
       the manor house over their heads, were honestly bewildered and
       hurt, and could only suppose that some wicked agitators from
       outside had suborned and bamboozled them.
       And there is really no way to ensure that a 'hugging culture' at
       work doesn't end up badly. Like a drinking culture or a
       practical-jokes culture, it will be obligatory - no matter what
       the management insist to the contrary - for anyone who wants to
       fit in, let alone get on. And it will be abused - if not by the
       Big Boss, than by the small ones and the office creeps. So, if
       any bozo suggests 'Wouldn't it be a good thing if we all started
       each working day with a team hug?' or some such, the short
       answer is, 'No, it would not. Just drop the idea'.
       If the management want the workplace to be laid-back and
       informal, they can create that without hugging. If they want to
       build comradeship and teamwork, they only need to show by real
       action that they respect their employees and value hard work,
       honesty, initiative and cooperation.
       #Post#: 20970--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Luci Date: December 8, 2018, 10:30 am
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       Well said.
       #Post#: 20976--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: lakey Date: December 8, 2018, 12:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree that "hugging" is something that should just be
       eliminated from the workplace. Even when it is non-sexual, some
       of us just don't like that much physical contact. I've known
       plenty of people who huggers in an entirely harmless, non-sexual
       way. They're very nice people. I just don't like being hugged by
       people I'm not intimate with.
       #Post#: 20977--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: HenrysMom Date: December 8, 2018, 2:43 pm
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       I can’t imagine being hugged by any of my bosses - frankly the
       thought of it squicks me out.
       I’ve tried to think what context this would be okay - small
       startup, family-owned and operated - but still no, it’s still
       unprofessional and still icky.
       #Post#: 20989--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Thitpualso Date: December 8, 2018, 6:20 pm
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       In the articles cited Ray Kelvin said that he hugged his
       employees because he had arthritis and shaking hands was
       painful.  Did he ever consider that some of his employees may
       have back problems that make hugging painful?  Others may have
       an aversion to being touched, let alone hugged by people they
       don’t know well.  In most professional situations a nod and a
       smile will work just fine if the handshake is declined.
       Anything that employees must do apart from good attendance and
       proper performance of job duties becomes coercion and should not
       be part of a workplace ‘culture’.
       #Post#: 21068--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Victoria Date: December 10, 2018, 4:00 pm
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       [quote author=HenrysMom link=topic=863.msg20977#msg20977
       date=1544301789]
       I can’t imagine being hugged by any of my bosses - frankly the
       thought of it squicks me out.
       I’ve tried to think what context this would be okay - small
       startup, family-owned and operated - but still no, it’s still
       unprofessional and still icky.
       [/quote]
       IMO this would be even worse since there's so much less
       separation between employees, and fewer chances to complain
       without fear of retaliation.
       #Post#: 21191--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Kiwipinball Date: December 11, 2018, 8:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Victoria link=topic=863.msg21068#msg21068
       date=1544479227]
       [quote author=HenrysMom link=topic=863.msg20977#msg20977
       date=1544301789]
       I can’t imagine being hugged by any of my bosses - frankly the
       thought of it squicks me out.
       I’ve tried to think what context this would be okay - small
       startup, family-owned and operated - but still no, it’s still
       unprofessional and still icky.
       [/quote]
       IMO this would be even worse since there's so much less
       separation between employees, and fewer chances to complain
       without fear of retaliation.
       [/quote]
       Well if your boss is your mom or sister or aunt or something
       (male relatives too, but I've decided to assume the boss is a
       woman) it could be fine but otherwise, not so much.
       #Post#: 21243--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: VorFemme Date: December 12, 2018, 10:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The only time I can see a boss hugging their subordinates is if
       the business is a family one, and the boss is a parent,
       grandparent, or sibling of the subordinate.  And it is even more
       acceptable if they are at a family event that is not business
       related.
       But for a business that is only a business, no family involved,
       save the hugging for your family and not your subordinates or
       anyone else at work.
       #Post#: 21247--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: Betelnut Date: December 12, 2018, 10:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ironically, I hugged (side hugged) my boss just yesterday as it
       was a very difficult and emotional day for her (having to let
       someone go). If I had the opportunity to, I would have hugged
       the person being let go also. It isn't always "wrong"--context,
       personal relationships, etc. make a difference.
       #Post#: 21250--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Why a boss should not hug his subordinates, ever
       By: SioCat Date: December 12, 2018, 10:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Betelnut link=topic=863.msg21247#msg21247
       date=1544632336]
       Ironically, I hugged (side hugged) my boss just yesterday as it
       was a very difficult and emotional day for her (having to let
       someone go). If I had the opportunity to, I would have hugged
       the person being let go also. It isn't always "wrong"--context,
       personal relationships, etc. make a difference.
       [/quote]
       I agree.
       I’ve hugged my boss many times. Sometimes just on our way out
       the door. It’s never felt weird or wrong.
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