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#Post#: 20357--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Kimberami
Date: November 30, 2018, 12:22 am
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You can tell your daughter that it isn't her job to fix Tina. We
can never control the actions of others. It is her job to keep
herself safe, successful and, healthy. It sounds like having
Tina around is not a healthy environment.
#Post#: 20360--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: doodlemor
Date: November 30, 2018, 12:27 am
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Former teacher here.
Tina's behavior sounds very disturbing. I suspect that she is
mirroring behavior that she has experienced.
I'd be tempted to have her over a few times, and try to talk
with her enough to find out if there is anything in her home
life justifying a call to CPS. I know that this sounds pretty
sneaky, but it may be that Tina is having a great deal of
difficulty or abuse at home. If that is true, someone needs to
intervene.
Or, perhaps the rages that OP has seen are already sufficiently
abnormal to justify a CPS call.
If the children's school has a counselor, OP could also call
that person to make sure that Tina is on their radar - although
she may be already getting assistance. The counselor, of
course, can't tell OP anything, but OP can tell the counselor
that she knows of a child who seems extremely angry and unhappy
and perhaps they would check out the situation.
#Post#: 20363--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Aleko
Date: November 30, 2018, 1:38 am
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--- Quote ---
> She is being verbally abused. Teach her to stay away from
abusers.
--- End Quote ---
Yes!!! In a few years, whenever she starts dating, she could
have some very nasty experiences indeed if she hasn't learnt
that empathy and compassion have a limit, and that limit is when
someone feels free to use you as an emotional (or physical)
punchbag. Also, that enabling someone's bad behaviour by
protecting them from the natural consequences of it is not, in
the long term, a real kindness to them.
#Post#: 20370--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: November 30, 2018, 8:11 am
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Your daughter sounds like a very empathetic person. She will
need to learn how to deal with embracing this level of empathy
while protecting herself.
Tell your daughter that you are very proud of her. Tell her that
you want her to always try to be as kind to everyone as she has
been to Tina. But tell her that at some point everyone needs to
realize that they can not save or protect others. Tell her that
she might even be doing harm to Tina because as long as Tina has
some form of life line in Ava, Tina will not see the need to
change her behavior. Also, tell her that when Tina's rage comes
out she is free to address it head on with a little anger of her
own. "I'm tired of you speaking to me like that" (or in tween
girl speak "Just shut up") and then walk away.
You might want to talk with the school counselor to see if she
can suggest some books or reading material for your daughter to
learn to manage her high level of empathy. You might even want
to see if you can find a skills counselor that can help her
learn to recognize when she is moving away from just being nice
and a good friend into the realm of trying to solve someone
else's problems and putting herself at risk.
#Post#: 20381--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Celestia
Date: November 30, 2018, 9:47 am
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Poor Tina :( I was that kid. It was an anxiety/mood disorder
that didn't get diagnosed until I started self-harming in high
school. My emotions changed too quickly and came on too
intensely for 10-year-old me to control. 30-year-old me still
has trouble with it.
Not that that makes a reason for your daughter to hang out with
her. I just....felt obligated, I guess, to give the benefit of
the doubt that Tina is suffering, too.
I think framing it in consequences is a good way to go. It'd be
mean behavior to pick on Tina or to exclude her out of the blue,
but she's HAD chances, Ava has experience now, and she's making
an informed decision, not a mean one.
#Post#: 20404--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: QueenFaninCA
Date: November 30, 2018, 3:41 pm
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I agree with others to teach Ava about things having natural
consequences.
But I would also make it very clear to the teacher and the
principal and this level of abuse my child is experiencing at
the hand of Tina is absolutely not acceptable. And yes, if they
don't do seriously work on fixing this situation, I will
escalate this.
#Post#: 20405--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: ZekailleTasker
Date: November 30, 2018, 3:44 pm
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--- Quote from: Winterlight link ---
>
> I think Ava should step back from Tina. She doesn't have to be
rude to her, but she's basically hanging out with her for pity,
which is not doing Tina any favors in the long term. Ava may
also run off her actual friends, because they know if they want
to spend time with Ava they have to put up with Tina. Not
surprisingly, they don't want to.
>
> If other children don't want to be around Tina because she's
horrible to them, then that is not "mean girl" behavior. If they
were abandoning Tina because her family was poor, that would be
mean. What's going on here is "natural consequences." Nobody
wants to hang out with someone who goes into rage fits on a
regular basis.
>
--- End Quote ---
This.
I used to be Ava, always trying to include every one.
Eventually, I was stuck with the Tinas and the other antisocial
"spirited" children. It was not fun and I had to fight to get
back in with people who weren't toxic. (Although, in the sixth
grade, I wouldn't have said "toxic").
Ava needs to distance herself from Tina before she finds her
only friend is Tina.
#Post#: 20407--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Sweet Jane
Date: November 30, 2018, 3:54 pm
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OP here. Thanks for all of your perspectives.
Celestia, I really appreciate your perspective. I do think that
there's some underlying problem behind Tina's anger, and I do
think her parents' inability to see red flags in Tina's behavior
is keeping her from getting help she needs.
But Tina is not my problem, and our school really doesn't have
resources to help her either. There is no counselor, there is a
part-time psychologist who is only on campus to deal with
certain IEP students. The administration takes a pretty
hands-off attitude toward behavior problems, mostly trying to
encourage kids to find common ground but not really making them
face consequences for poor behavior. As long as no one's
physically harmed, the school doesn't intervene much.
So I will talk to Ava and explain to her that she can feel bad
for Tina, but if she wants Tina to be nicer she can't keep
giving her second (and third and fourth and fifth) chances.
Maybe in the future if Tina shows an effort to improve, but
until then Ava needs to accept that Tina is a problem she can't
solve, and that the best thing she can do for both of them is to
take a giant step back.
#Post#: 20436--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: November 30, 2018, 9:26 pm
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--- Quote from: lakey link ---
>
> I would tell Ava that the only way that Tina will change is
when she has to suffer the consequences of her bad behavior. By
shielding Tina from the consequences of her behavior she is not
helping her. Tina may not change anyway, but Ava really is not
helping her.
>
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
>
> if she wants Tina to be nicer she can't keep giving her second
(and third and fourth and fifth) chances.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wouldn't say this, because it basically reinforces the idea
that somehow Ava is responsible for Tina, that it is Ava's role
to help Tina in some way--either by befriending her, or by
"fixing" her through consequences, etc.
I would work to help Ava see that she is NOT responsible for
Tina, and that Tina is old enough and capable enough to sort
herself out, and that Ava has already done all of the
"willingness to be friendly" steps that are part of being a
friendly person.
I would focus on how to get Ava to decide what SHE wants, how
she wants HER lunchtime to go, and to encourage her that now it
is time to switch her priorities.
Not that we shouldn't help people, but that there comes a time
when we have to set the "project" down and walk away, since
nothing good is coming of it.
I actually think it's kind of disrespectful to try to "fix"
someone like Tina, either by dropping her now in an attempt to
give her "natural consequences," or by trying to be friendly
beyond normal limits in order to protect her.
Be friendly, and then respond in a normal manner; when Ava does
stop socializing with Tina, it won't be because she's trying to
"fix" her, but because Ava doesn't enjoy the interactions. Same
end result, but a very different mindset. That difference might
not be visible to Tina, but it's sure visible to Ava. And it
-might- be something that comes through in the treatment of
Tina.
(also, if Tina is mean, that's a message from her that she
doesn't want the friendship, and it's important to respect that)
#Post#: 20485--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
DIR By: Sara Crewe
Date: December 1, 2018, 2:19 pm
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It appears that somewhere along the way, Ava has picked up the
idea that being anything other than a doormat isn’t ‘nice’. If
she doesn’t lose this idea and learn that setting boundaries
does not make her ‘mean’, she is likely to end up the victim of
a lot of unpleasant people in her life.
Luckily she is young enough (and from the fact the OP posted has
family support to the contrary) that hopefully she can learn
otherwise.
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