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#Post#: 20330--------------------------------------------------
How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child - update #24, frustr
ating update #40
By: Sweet Jane Date: November 29, 2018, 6:01 pm
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Tina is in fifth grade with my daughter Ava. Tina doesn’t have
many friends. She has a terrible temper that she unleashes
whenever things don’t go her way. It’s not just that she gets
angry, she really gets in the other kids’ faces when she’s
yelling at them. The first time I saw one of Tina’s rages I was
surprised at the intensity and anger, and I truly believe no
child should be subjected to that behavior.
Ava doesn’t really like Tina (because of all the yelling) but
she doesn’t want her to be alone during lunch, so she often
invites her to join her friends. That means that Ava and her
friends have become frequent targets of Tina’s rage, and her
friends have started distancing herself from Ava when Tina is
around, because they say Tina isn’t very nice. They have told
Ava that she should not put up with Tina’s rages either.
Ava has told me that she doesn’t consider Tina a friend. She
read an article on friendship in a tween magazine and declared
that Tina definitely didn’t show any of the qualities of a
friend. But she hates the idea of leaving her to spend her
lunches and recesses alone every day. She says she doesn’t want
to be mean to her.
Ava feels stuck. She thinks abandoning Tina is mean girl
behavior even though she admits that she doesn’t like how Tina
treats her and doesn’t enjoy spending time with her. So how do I
help her disengage from this child kindly?
An additional detail: Tina’s behavior is not going to change any
time soon, as her mother believes very much that her child
should not have to change at all and that the school is
negligent in not helping other students adapt to Tina’s
“spirited” personality.
#Post#: 20333--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: Jem Date: November 29, 2018, 6:16 pm
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There is a difference between not being friends with someone and
being a mean girl. It doesn’t sound like anyone is actively
bullying Tina. I would encourage Ava to be kind to Tina but not
invite her to do anything. If Tina sits at the kick table, don’t
get up and leave.....but don’t ask her to sit next you or go out
of your way to include her. Does anyone go out of their way to
include Ava? The other girls? Or are they simply friends because
they are friendly kind people who don’t have to be “included”
because they are organically friends? Something for Ava to
consider.
#Post#: 20335--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: Sweet Jane Date: November 29, 2018, 6:23 pm
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[quote author=Jem link=topic=846.msg20333#msg20333
date=1543537003]
There is a difference between not being friends with someone and
being a mean girl.[/quote]
This is what I've struggled to get Ava to understand.
[quote author=Jem link=topic=846.msg20333#msg20333
date=1543537003]
Does anyone go out of their way to include Ava? The other girls?
Or are they simply friends because they are friendly kind people
who don’t have to be “included” because they are organically
friends? Something for Ava to consider.
[/quote]
I love this. I think this is a perfect way to frame the issue
for her. Thank you!
#Post#: 20336--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: Winterlight Date: November 29, 2018, 6:26 pm
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I think Ava should step back from Tina. She doesn't have to be
rude to her, but she's basically hanging out with her for pity,
which is not doing Tina any favors in the long term. Ava may
also run off her actual friends, because they know if they want
to spend time with Ava they have to put up with Tina. Not
surprisingly, they don't want to.
If other children don't want to be around Tina because she's
horrible to them, then that is not "mean girl" behavior. If they
were abandoning Tina because her family was poor, that would be
mean. What's going on here is "natural consequences." Nobody
wants to hang out with someone who goes into rage fits on a
regular basis.
#Post#: 20337--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: Rose Red Date: November 29, 2018, 6:44 pm
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Your daughter is not being mean if she distance herself. It's
protecting herself from a rage that even surprise adults. She is
being verbally abused. Teach her to stay away from abusers.
It's lovely when children reach out to a friendless "nerd" but
this isn't the case here. I hope Tina gets professional help but
this is too much for a child to take on.
#Post#: 20338--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: kidsandme Date: November 29, 2018, 6:49 pm
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[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=846.msg20336#msg20336
date=1543537617]
I think Ava should step back from Tina. She doesn't have to be
rude to her, but she's basically hanging out with her for pity,
which is not doing Tina any favors in the long term. Ava may
also run off her actual friends, because they know if they want
to spend time with Ava they have to put up with Tina. Not
surprisingly, they don't want to.
If other children don't want to be around Tina because she's
horrible to them, then that is not "mean girl" behavior. If they
were abandoning Tina because her family was poor, that would be
mean. What's going on here is "natural consequences." Nobody
wants to hang out with someone who goes into rage fits on a
regular basis.
[/quote]
The bolded above I completely agree with. Tell Ava, that Tina
may not mind eating alone, because if she wanted friends to eat
and play with she would be nice to them.
Ava can't help someone else if they don't want to be helped.
Also having Tina join Ava's friends is not helping Tina get
better.
#Post#: 20339--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: GardenGal Date: November 29, 2018, 7:17 pm
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[quote author=kidsandme link=topic=846.msg20338#msg20338
date=1543538982]
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=846.msg20336#msg20336
date=1543537617]
I think Ava should step back from Tina. She doesn't have to be
rude to her, but she's basically hanging out with her for pity,
which is not doing Tina any favors in the long term. Ava may
also run off her actual friends, because they know if they want
to spend time with Ava they have to put up with Tina. Not
surprisingly, they don't want to.
If other children don't want to be around Tina because she's
horrible to them, then that is not "mean girl" behavior. If they
were abandoning Tina because her family was poor, that would be
mean. What's going on here is "natural consequences." Nobody
wants to hang out with someone who goes into rage fits on a
regular basis.
[/quote]
The bolded above I completely agree with. Tell Ava, that Tina
may not mind eating alone, because if she wanted friends to eat
and play with she would be nice to them.
Ava can't help someone else if they don't want to be helped.
Also having Tina join Ava's friends is not helping Tina get
better.
[/quote]
ITA with the above - Ava is really not helping Tina. It's a
shame that Tina's mother isn't helping her daughter, either. As
the adult responsible for Tina, she's showing a dangerous
disregard for her own daughter's behavior. I feel sorry for
Tina, who is likely heading for much misery and loneliness.
#Post#: 20343--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: kidsandme Date: November 29, 2018, 7:44 pm
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I would also follow up with the teacher, principal and higher
ups as to how these situations are being dealt with . I would
absolutely not want my child in this environment.
If the mother is not helping her daughter than the school needs
to solve this problem of a child going into a rage.
Please help your daughter and the other kids. Ask the higher up
for answers. Tina should not have all the control in this
situation.
#Post#: 20349--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: Hanna Date: November 29, 2018, 9:08 pm
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Your daughter sounds like a very sweet person. I'm sorry she is
experiencing this, but it's really a lesson about the company
you keep that she will learn sooner or later.
I used to be friendly with a neighbor who was a bit like Tina.
We then had a falling out when she crossed a line with me and I
wasn't willing to overlook it. (Really a build up). The result
was that I was always cordial but didn't spend time with her for
a long time after that.
Not long after I distanced myself from her, a different neighbor
started extending invitations to me. He ended up being a really
wonderful friend; kind, intelligent, thoughtful: the kind of
person I want to spend my time around.
One day he said "I am sorry that I was not friendlier to you
when you moved here, but I could not have any proximity to that
woman and so because you were friends with her, I could not be
friends with you."
It was a really great lesson about the company you keep. It's
just obvious really but until that happened, I never realize
that by being friends with people that were not nice to others,
I was missing out on other great friendships.
#Post#: 20354--------------------------------------------------
Re: How not to be the Mean Girl to a mean child
By: lakey Date: November 29, 2018, 10:06 pm
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I would tell Ava that the only way that Tina will change is when
she has to suffer the consequences of her bad behavior. By
shielding Tina from the consequences of her behavior she is not
helping her. Tina may not change anyway, but Ava really is not
helping her.
[quote]If the mother is not helping her daughter than the school
needs to solve this problem of a child going into a rage.
[/quote]
If the parent or parents refuse to cooperate, the school is
limited in what it can do. In order to provide some kinds of
help, the school needs to have an IEPC, come up with a plan to
work on the problem, and the parents need to sign off on it.
Without that the school is pretty much limited to disciplinary
action.
There are school counselors and school social workers who are
good at helping children develop social skills. Tina can be
taught ways to control her anger. Her mother is doing her a
disservice. This is sad.
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