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       #Post#: 19895--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: Rose Red Date: November 26, 2018, 7:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Jem link=topic=831.msg19891#msg19891
       date=1543239297]
       [quote author=Rose Red link=topic=831.msg19890#msg19890
       date=1543238894]
       The wording is still a bit confusing to me. Just say to be there
       by 1:00pm next time. Next time prepare some appetizers (even if
       it's just one plate of cheese and crackers or a bowl of chips)
       in case they flake out again, but you can never have enough food
       on thanksgiving if they actually bring their appetizers too.
       There's nothing you can do about this past event now anyway,
       except learn about people and how to handle invitations for next
       time. You may not want to invite some people again. Or you have
       to be very literal for others. It's useless to ask/say if other
       people were rude. You can only control your own reaction and
       decide what to do in the future.
       [/quote]
       I can’t speak for the OP, but as I said earlier, the message
       when my family uses similar phrasing is NOT “be there by 1:00.”
       The message is exactly what the OP said - to come any time after
       noon knowing that we will eat as early as 1:00. I wouldn’t
       expect people to waltz into my house and hang up their coats and
       sit down and expect to eat in 30 seconds if they showed up at
       1:00. That would be super rude unless they were coming from work
       or something. To essentially show up just for the food is rude
       to the host and everyone else, in my opinion.
       [/quote]
       Like you said, that's your family and they know the score. The
       OP's family sounded confused to me. Is this the first time or
       are they late all the time? And like I also said, there's no use
       calling them rude if you can't change them. Don't invite them
       next time or be very literal.
       #Post#: 19904--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: Hmmm Date: November 26, 2018, 8:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=katiekat2009 link=topic=831.msg19838#msg19838
       date=1543187055]
       I probably would have arrived about 12:45 in case you served
       closer to 1 than 2. I think DD was inconsiderate in that she
       expected 19 other people to adjust their schedule to hers. You
       probably should have served at 12, no later than 1, if she
       wanted to leave by 3:00. And, she could have just let her
       boyfriend go ahead to his own T'giving without her.
       [/quote]
       I don't believe my DD was inconsiderate at all. I've often
       inquired about family member's additional plans on holidays and
       worked to find the best time that fits everyone's schedule. I've
       moved Tday lunch to Tday dinner to accommodate a nephew's
       schedule and I've moved Christmas Dinner to Christmas lunch to
       accommodate my inlaws needing to leave town. I start inquiring
       about everyone's plans in early November and other than DD, no
       one who planned to attend our meal as their primary meal that
       day had something else scheduled. And since I am the one
       hosting, I don't see how I could be criticized for deciding on
       the schedule of the day.
       Even with the meal being delayed to the latest time of 2pm, they
       still had a full hour to eat the meai, have dessert and pack up
       some left overs before heading out.
       #Post#: 19906--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: Pattycake Date: November 26, 2018, 8:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To me, "serving lunch between 1 and 2" sounds sort of like it
       would be buffet. Everything would be out between 1 and 2 for
       people to eat, then you'd be starting to tidy up. The question
       posed was, when would you arrive? I would arrive before 1,
       probably 12:30, But I can see how people would come later. OP's
       family needs concrete times, especially since there are chronic
       late people. In this case, if I don't know exactly when the food
       will be on the table, I would say to come by 12:30 as I was
       planning on serving lunch at one, but you know how it is with
       turkey!
       #Post#: 19910--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: Jem Date: November 26, 2018, 9:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Even if this had been a buffet that was "open" between 1:00 and
       2:00, I still think it would be rude to show up right at 1:00
       and certainly rude to show up AFTER 1:00. It strikes me as
       treating the event as a business transaction or fast food
       situation rather than a family holiday gathering.
       It sounds like the OP's situation was going to have issues no
       matter what though. From the backstory, her relatives don't show
       up when specific times are provided either so saying "please be
       here by 12:30" would not have resulted in people actually
       showing up at 12:30.
       I think especially when there are various people who have
       various places to be on particular days it is important to be
       prompt. The best way to teach people to be prompt is to stick to
       the stated schedule. It may cause friction in the short term,
       but hopefully over time people will learn that dinner will be
       served when the host said it was going to be served.....not when
       a person decided to finally show up.
       #Post#: 19911--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: lowspark Date: November 26, 2018, 9:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't really think it's necessary to say what time the food
       will be served, but instead just give an expected arrival time.
       When I host a meal, I always invite people for about an hour or
       so before the meal will be served. That gives everyone time to
       arrive, socialize a bit, and maybe have a cocktail. So in this
       case I would have probably just asked everyone to arrive by
       12:30. If the food is ready at 1, you can serve right away or
       wait 15 more minutes if people are having a good time. If the
       food isn't ready till 2, the social hour stretches a bit but
       that's certainly forgivable.
       In the case of your sister getting tired quickly, I'd probably
       just give her the heads up separately that the food might be
       served anywhere between 1 and 2 so she can plan appropriately.
       I really think that this is a "know your audience" kind of
       thing. You mentioned, "I adore my inlaws and have learned over
       the last 25 years to "deal" with the issue of their arrival on
       time" so you know that they tend to be late, right? So yeah,
       never let them bring appetizers, and give them a specific time
       to arrive that builds in the anticipation that they will be late
       or come at the last minute.
       But to answer your original question, I would have arrived at
       about 12:15.
       #Post#: 19916--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: DaDancingPsych Date: November 26, 2018, 9:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would have arrived after noon. 12:15pm maybe? Now if I was
       your sister, I would arrive just prior to 1:00pm, as that is the
       earliest that you are saying that the food would be served and
       would allow me a bit more rest time.
       I agree with others. Those who are always late would not be
       contributing appetizers, as they would likely not arrive on
       time. And I would edit the information to them and ask them to
       arrive at a specific time that is padded a bit in the hopes that
       they would arrive at an appropriate time.
       Growing up I had an aunt and uncle who were always an hour (if
       not more) late to things. My parents purposefully told them an
       hour earlier and they were still usually late. I honestly cannot
       recall a single time that they were ever on time... in fact, my
       mom claims that they were late for their own wedding!!!
       #Post#: 19932--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: mime Date: November 26, 2018, 10:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Pattycake link=topic=831.msg19906#msg19906
       date=1543244351]
       To me, "serving lunch between 1 and 2" sounds sort of like it
       would be buffet. Everything would be out between 1 and 2 for
       people to eat, then you'd be starting to tidy up. The question
       posed was, when would you arrive? I would arrive before 1,
       probably 12:30, But I can see how people would come later. OP's
       family needs concrete times, especially since there are chronic
       late people. In this case, if I don't know exactly when the food
       will be on the table, I would say to come by 12:30 as I was
       planning on serving lunch at one, but you know how it is with
       turkey!
       [/quote]
       That's exactly how I would have interpreted it, where food was
       buffet-style and out from 1-2. I'd also assume that there was
       socializing before, during, and after the meal so someone
       arriving at 12:55 or even 1:30 may be there for socializing
       afterwards; not necessarily running as soon as the meal was
       over. From my interpretation I think it would be strange to show
       up at 1:55, since the food would be getting cleared about that
       time.
       So, yeah, I think you would have done better to give both an
       upper and a lower limit to the arrival time: "arrive between 12
       and 1" to help with all of our different interpretations. :)
       #Post#: 19954--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: VorFemme Date: November 26, 2018, 10:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Hanna link=topic=831.msg19888#msg19888
       date=1543236816]
       I suspect if one these people who have trouble understanding the
       concept of “the meal will begin between 1 and 2” were told “The
       local bank is giving away a million dollars to each person
       present some time between 1 and 2” they would get there before 1
       without any confusion.
       Chronically late people with no medical reason just think their
       time is more valuable than everyone else’s.
       [/quote]
       Or just don't *think* is what I've observed a few times - they
       know that dinner starts at X, but they just don't think about
       how long it can take to drive from their house to the place
       where they'll be eating and don't allow enough time for the
       trip.  Or allow any time at all for "things to happen" - such as
       detours due to construction, needing to stop to get fuel, pick
       up a hostess gift, accidents, car trouble, or the five year old
       throwing up in the back seat (their travel clothes and my wrap
       ended up in the aunt's washing machine & dryer during dinner -
       we had planned to change them into a holiday outfit for the
       dinner & photos with great-grandmother).
       I've heard other  people talking about trips they're taking as
       if the shortest time it has ever taken them to get to *Grandma's
       House* (or wherever) is how long they plan on it taking from
       then on - never mind that that one time the weather was perfect,
       traffic was light, they had a full tank of gas, and *nothing*
       happened to cause delays.  The next time they go, they'll still
       allow the same amount of time for travel even if they need to
       stop & get gas AND it's raining, too.  Because "it's only a
       twenty minute drive"!
       #Post#: 19973--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: QueenFaninCA Date: November 26, 2018, 2:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=lakey link=topic=831.msg19873#msg19873
       date=1543208170]
       [quote]There was not a specific meal time. You can argue about
       interpretation and meaning and what the guests should have known
       or understood but the OP said she gave a time range, between 1
       and 2. A range is not a specific meal time. [/quote]
       When you are cooking and serving a roasted turkey, a sweet
       potato casserole, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, a vegetable
       dish, along with cranberries, rolls, and dessert, it is almost
       impossible to give a specific meal time when everything will be
       ready and hot. Therefore you give a range. "We will be eating
       between 1 and 2, depending on when the food is ready." You can't
       say specifically, "We'll eat at 1:30," because there is a good
       chance that everything won't be ready. You have to leave the
       turkey in the oven until its internal temperature reaches a
       certain temperature. Once everything is ready and hot, you have
       everyone move to the dining room table. If you wait 20 minutes
       for someone who is "on their way", then you will have wasted a
       couple of days of work on a meal that is cold and unappetizing.
       A professional chef might be able to give an exact serving time
       for a meal like this. I can't, and I don't think most home cooks
       can. Sometimes people who haven't prepared a meal like this for
       a large number of guests have no idea the amount of planning,
       work, and expense that goes into it. If guests are a little
       confused by "We're serving lunch between 1 and 2,depending on
       when food is ready", they should err on the side of
       consideration for the host who is doing all of the work and
       expense, not their own convenience. It's pretty obvious that the
       range is because the host doesn't know exactly when the food
       will be ready, not because you can show up as late as 2.
       [/quote]
       I'm not a professional chef but I do manage to serve my
       Christmas goose with all the trimmings within two minutes of the
       time I said dinner would be ready. It's not that hard, it just
       requires some planning to make sure everything gets in the oven
       or the pot at the right time. I have a big spreadsheet that has
       the timeline to make sure I don't get to the point in the recipe
       where it says "add chopped onion" and realize the onion isn't
       chopped yet.
       But to the OP, I thought it was clear that guests could arrive
       any time after noon and the meal would be served at some point
       between 1 and 2 with the exact time not known in advance (and
       could be 1pm). I'd probably arrive around 12:10 and recommend to
       someone wanting to minimize time there to arrive just before
       1pm.
       #Post#: 19986--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When would you arrive?
       By: Hmmm Date: November 26, 2018, 3:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=QueenFaninCA link=topic=831.msg19973#msg19973
       date=1543263012]
       [quote author=lakey link=topic=831.msg19873#msg19873
       date=1543208170]
       [quote]There was not a specific meal time. You can argue about
       interpretation and meaning and what the guests should have known
       or understood but the OP said she gave a time range, between 1
       and 2. A range is not a specific meal time. [/quote]
       When you are cooking and serving a roasted turkey, a sweet
       potato casserole, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, a vegetable
       dish, along with cranberries, rolls, and dessert, it is almost
       impossible to give a specific meal time when everything will be
       ready and hot. Therefore you give a range. "We will be eating
       between 1 and 2, depending on when the food is ready." You can't
       say specifically, "We'll eat at 1:30," because there is a good
       chance that everything won't be ready. You have to leave the
       turkey in the oven until its internal temperature reaches a
       certain temperature. Once everything is ready and hot, you have
       everyone move to the dining room table. If you wait 20 minutes
       for someone who is "on their way", then you will have wasted a
       couple of days of work on a meal that is cold and unappetizing.
       A professional chef might be able to give an exact serving time
       for a meal like this. I can't, and I don't think most home cooks
       can. Sometimes people who haven't prepared a meal like this for
       a large number of guests have no idea the amount of planning,
       work, and expense that goes into it. If guests are a little
       confused by "We're serving lunch between 1 and 2,depending on
       when food is ready", they should err on the side of
       consideration for the host who is doing all of the work and
       expense, not their own convenience. It's pretty obvious that the
       range is because the host doesn't know exactly when the food
       will be ready, not because you can show up as late as 2.
       [/quote]
       I'm not a professional chef but I do manage to serve my
       Christmas goose with all the trimmings within two minutes of the
       time I said dinner would be ready. It's not that hard, it just
       requires some planning to make sure everything gets in the oven
       or the pot at the right time. I have a big spreadsheet that has
       the timeline to make sure I don't get to the point in the recipe
       where it says "add chopped onion" and realize the onion isn't
       chopped yet.
       But to the OP, I thought it was clear that guests could arrive
       any time after noon and the meal would be served at some point
       between 1 and 2 with the exact time not known in advance (and
       could be 1pm). I'd probably arrive around 12:10 and recommend to
       someone wanting to minimize time there to arrive just before
       1pm.
       [/quote]
       I too can usually get the meal contents we are making all
       together at a very specific time. This year I was a little more
       concerned because my DH would be frying 2 turkeys (have to get
       one done and then put the other on) and I was also smoking a
       stuffed pork loin and a duck. If you've ever smoked anything,
       you know you have to go by temp and not time. Depending on
       weather and a whole bunch of other factors, timing can vary by
       20 min to an hour depending on what you are cooking. And then,
       invariably, someone arrives with an unexpected fridge cold
       casserole that needs to be heated, someone else wants to decant
       a couple of bottles of wine right before dinner, someone else
       wants a lesson in making gravy as they visit with me in the
       kitchen, and someone else arrives with a dessert that requires
       me to find a specific type of dish to be unmolded onto. (All
       real examples from this year). So while all of my dishes may be
       ready, dealing with everyone else's last minute needs can create
       a delay.
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