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#Post#: 19320--------------------------------------------------
Quick Perspective
By: Hanna Date: November 19, 2018, 8:40 am
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Hi all, I would post this on Ask a Manager but wanted quicker
feedback.
I manage a team of people. There is a role that is more Senior
to the role of the members of my team which does not report to
me or my boss. My goal for my team (if they wish) is to have
them advance into that Sr. role. It is a great career
progression for them.
My boss went away on a work trip with someone in this Sr. Role.
Together they decided to contact a member of my team,
Evangeline, to ask if she would be interested in taking on some
of this Sr. level work. She checked and found out they had not
mentioned this to me, but wanted to gauge her interest first.
She called me because though it's really exciting, she was
uncomfortable discussing it without me being informed.
I am first and foremost excited for her. It's fantastic, in
fact!
But also trying to figure out what to say to my Director, if
anything at all. This happened to him once also and he was
madder than a wet hen! He's a good guy and generally I really
like working for him.
#Post#: 19324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective
By: Jem Date: November 19, 2018, 9:05 am
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I don't think we know enough about the structure of your
company. That said, I don't know that the director did anything
wrong. Unless you are supposed to be involved in hiring for the
Senior position, there really is no reason to discuss it with
you. When and if you lose an analyst for whatever reason (moving
away, going to another company....being promoted to the senior
position), that is when you would need to be consulted. It's not
like you could prevent one of "your" analysts from taking
another job.
I understand that apparently people felt awkward with you not
being consulted or in the loop, but I don't really see why you
would be based on what you have told us. Personally, I would let
this go.
#Post#: 19328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective - already an update.
By: Hanna Date: November 19, 2018, 9:50 am
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Already have an update: My Director stopped by and let me know
that this Sr. person reached out to my team member without his
consent, and that he was bothered by it also. Sr. guy does not
report to him, either so it is technically against policy for
this guy to have done what he did by approaching her without an
OK from one of us.
This happened Friday while my boss was traveling. But we both
agree it's a neat opportunity for her and we do want to make it
happen. So we will sit down next week to discuss the details
and plan how it will work with her current duties. She will
remain under my management and we will figure out how to fit in
some extra duties. He really is a great boss.
#Post#: 19329--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective - already an update.
By: Jem Date: November 19, 2018, 9:58 am
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[quote author=Hanna link=topic=819.msg19328#msg19328
date=1542642643]
Already have an update: My Director stopped by and let me know
that this Sr. person reached out to my team member without his
consent, and that he was bothered by it also. This guy does not
report to him, either so it is technically against policy for
this guy to have done what he did by approaching her without an
OK from one of us.
This happened Friday while my boss was traveling. But we both
agree it's a neat opportunity for her and we do want to make it
happen. So we will sit down next week to discuss the details
and plan how it will work with her current duties. She will
remain under my management and we will figure out how to fit in
some extra duties. He really is a great boss.
[/quote]
I am not following the green bolded. What is the policy?
#Post#: 19330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective
By: mime Date: November 19, 2018, 10:03 am
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I guess I'm really of the opposite opinion of OP on this...
I actually think it is best to *not* involve a person's direct
manager when presenting a potential career step. They need time
to consider it without concerning their supervisor, who may or
may not have their best interests in mind. They can choose to
bring their boss into the loop if they want, and it sounds like
that's what happened here.
It makes sense to me that the individual was approached with an
opportunity rather than her boss, just as a standard of
practice. I also think that approaching you before approaching
Evangeline would have been disrespectful to Evangeline. I
believe this, having been in all 3 roles in this situation.
ETA: after reading the update, I have to add that standards of
practice can vary from place to place. We may just work in two
different business cultures!
#Post#: 19332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective - already an update.
By: Hanna Date: November 19, 2018, 10:21 am
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[quote author=Jem link=topic=819.msg19329#msg19329
date=1542643134]
[quote author=Hanna link=topic=819.msg19328#msg19328
date=1542642643]
Already have an update: My Director stopped by and let me know
that this Sr. person reached out to my team member without his
consent, and that he was bothered by it also. This guy does not
report to him, either so it is technically against policy for
this guy to have done what he did by approaching her without an
OK from one of us.
This happened Friday while my boss was traveling. But we both
agree it's a neat opportunity for her and we do want to make it
happen. So we will sit down next week to discuss the details
and plan how it will work with her current duties. She will
remain under my management and we will figure out how to fit in
some extra duties. He really is a great boss.
[/quote]
I am not following the green bolded. What is the policy?
[/quote]
We are not allowed to recruit internally without discussing with
the other managers involved first. If there is a role open
anyone can apply, but we cannot recruit. However, this Sr. guy
doesn't manage anyone and has no reason to know this. If my own
boss decided to move people around under his chain of command,
he certainly has a right to do so. But if he started doing that
without my involvement it would really erode the trust we have
built. It would make it difficult to meet my responsibilities
with a reduced staff and while I am willing to do that if I know
the thought process behind the changes, if I had to do so with
no discussion at all it would be frustrating.
I have more info now and it is actually just specific set of
duties that Sr. guy wants to pass to Evangeline. We definitely
do not have the right to ask people that report to other people
to take on extra responsibilities without going through their
manager. And particularly when it is exciting work, asking
without first checking with the manager for approval is a bit
like offering a child a puppy without the parents' approval. He
cannot know if it is possible for her to fulfill her own
obligations while fitting this in, or what the repercussions
would be to my team.
Just found out that Sr. guy apologized to her this morning for
not speaking to me first. He said he realized it wasn't the
right way to go about this.
Anyway, it will all work out, and it will be really good for
Evangeline, and ultimately for the company.
#Post#: 19442--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective
By: Hanna Date: November 20, 2018, 2:32 pm
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I just completely changed my opinion on this!
Turns out Sr. Guy is talking about retiring, and wanted to see
if Evangeline is interested in learning his role. In this case,
it makes total sense that he would speak to her first, to gauge
her interest first.
I really hope this works out! She’s a great fit for the job and
I’d love to see her advance like this.
#Post#: 20620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quick Perspective
By: Hanna Date: December 3, 2018, 1:16 pm
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[quote author=Lexophile link=topic=819.msg20618#msg20618
date=1543863834]
So glad this worked out, and that you are lending your support
to this person in such a positive way.
If it were to happen again with someone different, I'd email
that person, copying your boss, and just acknowledge what an
exciting and positive opportunity it is for your direct report.
It's a way to declare your professional "authority" (for lack of
a better word) in the matter without using language that comes
across as territorial or negative.
[/quote]
That's a great idea! We ended up sitting down together and
discussing (boss, me, other guy), and my boss asked me to put
the parameters around it. This work will really come under my
responsibility once my team member is trained, meaning if she
left, I would have to figure out how our team could continue to
manage the work. I made it clear that I want clear training,
documentation and then cross training for at least one other
person on the team. Also a heads up any time it might take more
than a few hours out of her time within a week. Everyone agreed
this was a good path. They are actually training together right
now. She's really excited!
Also, my boss is just great!
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