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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 18206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Victoria
Date: November 5, 2018, 9:24 am
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I'm a lawyer and I have never seen (nor do I think I'll ever
see) a lawyer bring an infant to one of the big conferences I go
to in places like DC or Chicago. I'm pretty sure that it would
raise a lot of eyebrows if a partner did it and a junior
associate wouldn't get away with it without at least a stern
talking-to. Part of that has to do with the expectation that you
work all the time and you're always available, and you're
distracted/not able to network properly with a child present.
Another part of that is that lawyers are generally pretty highly
compensated and I think the expectation is that you make enough
money to get a babysitter and should pump enough milk to leave
your child alone for a few (or several) hours.
#Post#: 18208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Jem
Date: November 5, 2018, 9:36 am
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--- Quote from: Victoria link ---
>
> I'm a lawyer and I have never seen (nor do I think I'll ever
see) a lawyer bring an infant to one of the big conferences I go
to in places like DC or Chicago. I'm pretty sure that it would
raise a lot of eyebrows if a partner did it and a junior
associate wouldn't get away with it without at least a stern
talking-to. Part of that has to do with the expectation that you
work all the time and you're always available, and you're
distracted/not able to network properly with a child present.
Another part of that is that lawyers are generally pretty highly
compensated and I think the expectation is that you make enough
money to get a babysitter and should pump enough milk to leave
your child alone for a few (or several) hours.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yep. I think people make choices based on what is important to
them, and they need to own the consequences of those choices.
Plenty of women choose to not have children; plenty of women
choose to have children. Same with men. Plenty of people have
various "things" that are important to them that are NOT
children and families. I don't see these other "things" getting
special treatment.
I don't think it is fair to expect those who have chosen not to
have children to pick up the slack for those who choose to have
children and who make their families a priority. I think it is
wonderful to choose a balance between work priorities and family
responsibilities.....but a person who seeks balance needs to
accept that people who put work first (or only) are going to
pass them by in the workplace. I also think it is entitled to
expect to bring an infant or child to work (much like I think it
is entitled to bring a non-service animal to work). If the
company allows it? Well, okay then.
I say this as a lawyer who went in-house for significantly less
money but also significantly less time expectations when I had
my daughter. I nursed her for a year, but pumped while at work.
#Post#: 18227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: November 5, 2018, 12:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: AtHomeRose link ---
>
> I think this is completely up to the conference organizers. I
have helped organize conferences for the professional societies
I belong to and have been please that welcoming infants under a
certain age is a growing trend in my professional sphere. I
think one of the reasons for this is we have a growing
leadership of mid-career women who remember the fear of missing
those one or two professional development conferences a year
because of having infants too young to be left.
>
> As an organizer I understand that this might annoy some
participants, but we have always come down on the side that the
benefit of keeping these women fully involved in the society and
career far out way the slight annoyance of a coo or cry during a
presentation. At a conference of 500 or so we have never had
more than one to three parents need to bring an infant. And our
participants have always been good about removing little ones
who did not quite quickly. We also set up a separate room with
video and audio feed for those who had special needs, visual
impairment, hearing needs, mobility issues and moms with nursing
infants.
>
> I don’t think there is any unprofessional, entitled or rude
about bringing an infant to a conference if the organizers have
ok it. One time we had a key note speaker bring her nursing
infant daughter, I think it was wonderful, showing you could be
a fully involved Mom and still make great contributions to our
field.
>
> I keep using Moms/Women because they are still the ones who
make most of the career sacrifices for kids but we did have a
Dad bring an infant one time, so it is equal opportunity
assistance.
>
--- End Quote ---
But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day? I
know if the conference was so important to my career, I would
not have wanted to be distracted by taking care of a 6 month old
and having to miss important parts of the conference.
I'm not saying that there are circumstances that require a child
to be around a business environment for a short period. When my
now 24 year old was 6 weeks, I was still on leave but my company
really needed me to attend a meeting. I brought her in with me
for the 2 hour meeting. But that was with 6 other people and I
was doing them a favor. Not a full day conference.
#Post#: 18228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: mime
Date: November 5, 2018, 12:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Victoria link ---
>
> I'm a lawyer and I have never seen (nor do I think I'll ever
see) a lawyer bring an infant to one of the big conferences I go
to in places like DC or Chicago. I'm pretty sure that it would
raise a lot of eyebrows if a partner did it and a junior
associate wouldn't get away with it without at least a stern
talking-to. Part of that has to do with the expectation that you
work all the time and you're always available, and you're
distracted/not able to network properly with a child present.
Another part of that is that lawyers are generally pretty highly
compensated and I think the expectation is that you make enough
money to get a babysitter and should pump enough milk to leave
your child alone for a few (or several) hours.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm also in what's considered a
highly-compensated field requiring continuing ed to maintain our
credentials, and our conferences don't end when you walk out the
door of a meeting session. There are networking breakfasts,
lunches, dinners, and cocktail hours, as well as other
profession-relevant events going on in and around the conference
site. Our conferences tend to be in attractive cities and it is
very common to bring family along for touring after the
conference days, but we don't bring them to the conference. That
goes for babies, bigger kids, and spouses as well. Every once in
a while an attendee will bring a spouse to breakfast, and, well,
it tends to be awkward, and comes across as unprofessional. A
child would be so much more so!
I have kids, and have missed conferences in years when maternity
leave didn't accommodate travel, and have had to find other ways
to keep my credentials current. It is a choice you make.
Children are an obstacle to career progress and that's just a
fact of life, more true for women than for men. You can reduce
the impact by taking less leave, not breastfeeding, marrying
someone who is willing to give up career progress for the kids,
but you have to own your choices. Going to a professional
conference that does not welcome your children is really really
not owning your choices in today's reality.
I love when businesses and organizations are willing to help
people out with whatever issues they have-- making life easier
for us, whatever our situation. That speaks a lot of the
business that they are willing to help people out when they
don't need to. but it is their decision to make. A conference
host gets to decide what accommodations are important to them
and their clients to make. They (and your fellow attendees)
should be respected if the decision in effect is that having
babies present is just not conducive to a productive environment
for everyone there.
I can't imagine attending a conference and trying to understand
nuances of predictive analytics or whatever other technical
issue while I'm making sure the baby in my lap is content. It
would be a completely wasted effort for me, and I'd likely fail
at both jobs: 1- learning something and 2- keeping baby happy.
Anyway, IMO, my conferences are a wonderful mini-vacation where
I get three blissful childfree days of grown-up meals,
activities, and interactions. Then my oldest kid joins me for a
couple days of tourist stuff, which is also wonderful.
#Post#: 18230--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: QueenFaninCA
Date: November 5, 2018, 1:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day?
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you know how long it takes and how hard it is to find
reliable, high quality infant care where you live? Now take this
to a town (and possibly a country) where you have never been
before. And you only need it for at most a handful of days. Any
idea how expensive this unicorn is should you find it?
When our son was 5 months old (and still exclusively breastfed),
we took him with us to a conference abroad that both my husband
and I (we work in the same field) attended. During the
presentations in the morning we would sit next to the door so
that in case he got noisy, we would be out of the room in
seconds. Thanks to jetlag he actually slept through the morning
sessions. In the afternoon there were poster session where you
essentially walk around and talk to people in small groups. We
had him in a sling. He was happy (unless hungry or in need of a
diaper change) interacting with people (who would smile and wave
at him).
#Post#: 18231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Lilac
Date: November 5, 2018, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DaDancingPsych link ---
>
> [quote author=collakat link=topic=788.msg18190#msg18190
date=1541419113]
> [quote author=Winterlight link=topic=788.msg18183#msg18183
date=1541389413]
> I think conferences should look into offering onsite child
care, since many parents cannot leave their child/children home
for varying reasons. However, children should not be attending
panels/sessions/meetings. People need to be able to hear, and a
cranky child- or a happy one- can get very noisy very fast.
>
--- End Quote ---
I disagree, it brings a lot of extra legal and cost issues. If I
want to attend a conference, I have to make alternative
arrangements for my little one. When she was a baby, I did not
attend overnights or full days events, I made my required hours
in other ways to maintain my certifications.
[/quote]
Aleko has already outlined many issues that might make this
difficult. I, as a childfree participant, would be less happy to
know that my conference dollars were going to childcare. I am a
no frou frou kind of attendee. If I can avoid paying for
unnecessary, pricey extras (ie. lunch or unnecessary paper),
then I would prefer to do just that.
This is a tricky one, because I know how difficult childcare can
be, especially for babies who may still be nursing. I hate to
see anyone not be included in something that could booster their
career, but I also hate being disrupted during a presentation
(especially when the money came out of my own pocket!) I would
say that deciding to have a family means that you may have to
make a few sacrifices along the way. (My childfree choices have
brought sacrifices, too.) It might mean that you cannot attend a
conference or need to make other arrangements for childcare, but
I think that that is most fair option for everyone.
[/quote]
I agree with this. All of our personal lifestyle choices bring
costs and benefits. I would not want my professional conference
dollars being used to provide a benefit for only some attendees.
Having Plan A, Plan B and Plan C for child care is pretty much
Parenting 101.
#Post#: 18232--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Jem
Date: November 5, 2018, 2:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QueenFaninCA link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=788.msg18227#msg18227
date=1541443400]
> But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day?
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you know how long it takes and how hard it is to find
reliable, high quality infant care where you live? Now take this
to a town (and possibly a country) where you have never been
before. And you only need it for at most a handful of days. Any
idea how expensive this unicorn is should you find it?
When our son was 5 months old (and still exclusively breastfed),
we took him with us to a conference abroad that both my husband
and I (we work in the same field) attended. During the
presentations in the morning we would sit next to the door so
that in case he got noisy, we would be out of the room in
seconds. Thanks to jetlag he actually slept through the morning
sessions. In the afternoon there were poster session where you
essentially walk around and talk to people in small groups. We
had him in a sling. He was happy (unless hungry or in need of a
diaper change) interacting with people (who would smile and wave
at him).
[/quote]
The bolded green should not be made the problem of anyone other
than the people who chose to have the child(ren). Regarding the
blue, it sounds like you were happy with your decision to bring
your baby to a conference, and apparently did not receive
negative feedback for it. As a professional and as a mother, I
would not have wanted to make my baby do that and would not have
compromised my professional career by bringing my baby literally
to the conference.
#Post#: 18234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: AtHomeRose
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day? I
know if the conference was so important to my career, I would
not have wanted to be distracted by taking care of a 6 month old
and having to miss important parts of the conference.
>
> I'm not saying that there are circumstances that require a
child to be around a business environment for a short period.
When my now 24 year old was 6 weeks, I was still on leave but my
company really needed me to attend a meeting. I brought her in
with me for the 2 hour meeting. But that was with 6 other people
and I was doing them a favor. Not a full day conference.
>
--- End Quote ---
Lots of reasons. Exclusively breastfeed babies, Moms who can't
pump, babies who can't take bottles, single parents who are
trying to keep their careers, these are a few of the ones I have
run into, I am sure there are more.
I understand the idea that you are going to miss out on some
career opportunities because of kids, but I don't think we
should just shrug our shoulders as say "That is the price you
pay". I think all fields need to work to make having kids less
of a career killer for women. Otherwise we lose out on
brilliant, creative, dedicated workers. An infant being allowed
at a conference seems like low hanging fruit to make that
opportunities still available to a few new parents in that
situation.
#Post#: 18235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Jem
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: AtHomeRose link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=788.msg18227#msg18227
date=1541443400]
> But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day? I
know if the conference was so important to my career, I would
not have wanted to be distracted by taking care of a 6 month old
and having to miss important parts of the conference.
>
> I'm not saying that there are circumstances that require a
child to be around a business environment for a short period.
When my now 24 year old was 6 weeks, I was still on leave but my
company really needed me to attend a meeting. I brought her in
with me for the 2 hour meeting. But that was with 6 other people
and I was doing them a favor. Not a full day conference.
>
--- End Quote ---
Lots of reasons. Exclusively breastfeed babies, Moms who can't
pump, babies who can't take bottles, single parents who are
trying to keep their careers, these are a few of the ones I have
run into, I am sure there are more.
I understand the idea that you are going to miss out on some
career opportunities because of kids, but I don't think we
should just shrug our shoulders as say "That is the price you
pay". I think all fields need to work to make having kids less
of a career killer for women. Otherwise we lose out on
brilliant, creative, dedicated workers. An infant being allowed
at a conference seems like low hanging fruit to make that
opportunities still available to a few new parents in that
situation.
[/quote]
I don't think it is realistic to expect that a woman could
exclusively nurse her child and not pump while at work for any
length of time. Unless the mother worked from home, she would
need to have her baby with her while at work, which frankly
seems like way too much to ask of any employer. I exclusively
breastfed my daughter for the three months I was on maternity
leave, and then nursed/pumped until she was a year old. My
company allowed me breaks to pump, but I would not have dreamed
of announcing that I wanted to exclusively breastfeed my child
so I should be allowed to have her with me at all times while at
work. I think if a woman wants to exclusively breastfeed and not
pump, she can certainly make that choice, but I think it would
be unreasonable to expect this to not affect her job.
#Post#: 18240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Babies at conferences?
DIR By: Victoria
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: AtHomeRose link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=788.msg18227#msg18227
date=1541443400]
> But why does the child have to go with the mom to the
conference? Why can't she find alternative care for the day? I
know if the conference was so important to my career, I would
not have wanted to be distracted by taking care of a 6 month old
and having to miss important parts of the conference.
>
> I'm not saying that there are circumstances that require a
child to be around a business environment for a short period.
When my now 24 year old was 6 weeks, I was still on leave but my
company really needed me to attend a meeting. I brought her in
with me for the 2 hour meeting. But that was with 6 other people
and I was doing them a favor. Not a full day conference.
>
--- End Quote ---
Lots of reasons. Exclusively breastfeed babies, Moms who can't
pump, babies who can't take bottles, single parents who are
trying to keep their careers, these are a few of the ones I have
run into, I am sure there are more.
I understand the idea that you are going to miss out on some
career opportunities because of kids, but I don't think we
should just shrug our shoulders as say "That is the price you
pay". I think all fields need to work to make having kids less
of a career killer for women. Otherwise we lose out on
brilliant, creative, dedicated workers. An infant being allowed
at a conference seems like low hanging fruit to make that
opportunities still available to a few new parents in that
situation.
[/quote]
In my field conference appearances are not only educational
tools, they're networking and self-marketing tools. I'm there to
learn, shake hands, and talk to prospective outside counsel. I
want to meet Joe The Lawyer, I don't want to meet Joe The New
Dad. Similarly I want to present myself as Victoria The
Prospective Client and not Victoria The New Mom. A baby, no
matter how well-behaved, is an indication that your focus is not
fully on education, networking, and self-marketing for the
duration of the conference. I think that for the same reasons it
seems like low-hanging fruit to allow or encourage parents to
bring their children, it turns off other professionals.
Typically very large conferences are announced months in advance
(and usually at hotels, where you could stash a
spouse/babysitter and visit them on breaks), which should be
plenty of time to prepare. Smaller ones (running 1-3 hours) are
announced a month or two in advance, and it's no great loss to
just do it by webcast at your desk. I absolutely think that
offices, day-to-day work life, and office culture should be more
kid-and-new-parent friendly. But at a conference your goal is to
be "on" as a professional for a set amount of time, and
attendance is usually optional.
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