URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bad Manners and Brimstone
  HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Family and Children
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 17037--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: Chez Miriam Date: October 24, 2018, 1:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Rose Red link=topic=762.msg17035#msg17035
       date=1540406695]
       [quote author=Anon4Now link=topic=762.msg17030#msg17030
       date=1540405605]
       It was by no means rude or incorrect for OP to pay. But it was
       not necessary, and I think she may have felt a bit less
       lingering uneasiness if she had allowed the hosting
       responsibility to remain on Dave and Lisa.
       I believe it was rude and bad hosting for Dave to allow her to
       pay. The whole thing was (apparently) his idea, and it was
       extremely bad form to place the burden of hosting on the guest
       of honor.
       OP offered because she thought it might help alleviate the
       awkwardness. And it was a generous gesture. But, as we see, it
       did not fix anything.
       The whole thing left a bad taste in OP's mouth, and for good
       reason. She was put in a very uncomfortable position,
       cold-shouldered, and had her good nature taken advantage of.
       Lisa comes off very poorly in this scenario, but I have plenty
       of side-eye left for Dave as well.
       [/quote]
       In the OP, she said she took the bill from the waitress and gave
       her the credit card. Dave protested but the OP insisted. I'm not
       sure what Dave was suppose to do other than grab it from the
       waitress and fight for it. And then the OP insisting again. It
       can be an endless circle.
       It may be my experience growing up, but every adult had
       knock-out drag-out fights over the bill. Screaming was involved.
       Us kids promised we will not do that when we grew up. And we
       didn't because all their show of "generosity" was embarrassing.
       It's only been a week. Hopefully Dave will make up for it in
       another way.
       [/quote]
       I remember endless/repetitive discussion about "no, I want to
       pay for the petrol", "no, you can't, I enjoy driving" between my
       mum and her (non-driving) friends.  Mum was always happy to have
       a run out (and very generous), and her friends wanted to show
       their appreciation for mum's kindness in going out of her way to
       run them about.
       Never got to fisticuffs, but by the time I was an adult I would
       take the money from the friend, hand half of it back [because:
       too generous], and state that I would sneak it to Mum later when
       she wouldn't notice [because: she would be out petrol money
       otherwise].
       I'm sure that's not etiquette-approved, but it did save about 20
       minutes of my hair being pulled out before stalemate was reached
       on the journey, and the conversation started up again at
       lunch/coffee. ;)
       #Post#: 17038--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: Lilac Date: October 24, 2018, 2:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Lisa sounds ungracious, immature and self-centered.  Dave seems
       rather ineffectual -- if you were to be treated, he should have
       prevented the check from coming to you.
       That said -- the whole "sake squirting" thing would've grossed
       me out from the get-go, quelling my appetite.  And iif some of
       it had landed on my plate I would -- as Chez Miriam said, above
       -- have wondered where it had been first and that would've been
       the final gross-out straw.  I wouldn't have pushed my chair back
       and kept muttering "I just want to go" but I would've been
       thinking it.
       I really think that rituals involving squirting liquids, food
       play and the like are boorish and rude to fellow diners.  Just
       because a restaurant does something doesn't make it right.
       OP, I wouldn't initiate anything re upcoming birthdays if I were
       you.
       #Post#: 17048--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: lowspark Date: October 24, 2018, 2:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've never heard of squirting sake like this so I googled it.
       It's pretty disconcerting as it's not just a quick squirt. These
       cooks seem to be shooting an almost endless stream into the
       customers' mouths. It's definitely an accident waiting to
       happen. I'm surprised there aren't more cases of the sake
       landing on other people's dinners, and at that point, it is
       probably ricocheting out of someone's mouth at best, being spit
       out at worst.
       So I can understand Lisa being unhappy with it landing in her
       plate. But really, that's where my understanding ends. She
       should have just switched with Dave, since he offered, and
       sucked up her feelings for the sake of salvaging the evening.
       I would just quit doing things with Lisa and Dave in future
       unless it was a situation where there was a group or something
       you could easily extricate yourself from if Lisa got pouty. For
       sure I'd end the birthday dinners. At this point, you paid for
       this last one, so you don't sort of owe someone else their turn.
       Perfect time to just say that you're not really into the
       birthday dinners anymore.
       #Post#: 17050--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: HenrysMom Date: October 24, 2018, 3:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=lowspark link=topic=762.msg17048#msg17048
       date=1540409987]
       I've never heard of squirting sake like this so I googled it.
       It's pretty disconcerting as it's not just a quick squirt. These
       cooks seem to be shooting an almost endless stream into the
       customers' mouths. It's definitely an accident waiting to
       happen. I'm surprised there aren't more cases of the sake
       landing on other people's dinners, and at that point, it is
       probably ricocheting out of someone's mouth at best, being spit
       out at worst.
       So I can understand Lisa being unhappy with it landing in her
       plate. But really, that's where my understanding ends. She
       should have just switched with Dave, since he offered, and
       sucked up her feelings for the sake of salvaging the evening.
       I would just quit doing things with Lisa and Dave in future
       unless it was a situation where there was a group or something
       you could easily extricate yourself from if Lisa got pouty. For
       sure I'd end the birthday dinners. At this point, you paid for
       this last one, so you don't sort of owe someone else their turn.
       Perfect time to just say that you're not really into the
       birthday dinners anymore.
       [/quote]
       Well, the first time or two was a quick squirt, the last time,
       it was a stream and I couldn’t swallow fast enough, so I closed
       my mouth and it got all over my face and clothing as well as on
       Lisa’s plate.  I wasn’t happy about that myself, because I
       wanted to go shopping and didn’t want to smell like sake. I was
       willing to suck it up because they chose the place.  Afterwards,
       I literally had to go home and shower, then stayed home because
       the whole situation bummed me out.
       I didn’t tussle over the check, after the last time I heard Lisa
       say “I just want to go,” I waved the waitress over and she put
       the check in front of me. I pulled out my card and gave it to
       her, then Dave said “It’s your birthday, we were going to pay.”
       I told him “I don’t feel right you two having to pay for
       something one of you can’t eat,” and that was all that was said.
       As we were leaving, I honestly thanked them for inviting me and
       apologized for the sake.
       After this, I will most definitely not be putting myself forward
       to go to dinner with them.  I’ll just send cards in the mail for
       their birthdays and Christmas and call it good.
       #Post#: 17054--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: guest657 Date: October 24, 2018, 3:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Rose Red link=topic=762.msg17035#msg17035
       date=1540406695]
       [quote author=Anon4Now link=topic=762.msg17030#msg17030
       date=1540405605]
       It was by no means rude or incorrect for OP to pay. But it was
       not necessary, and I think she may have felt a bit less
       lingering uneasiness if she had allowed the hosting
       responsibility to remain on Dave and Lisa.
       I believe it was rude and bad hosting for Dave to allow her to
       pay. The whole thing was (apparently) his idea, and it was
       extremely bad form to place the burden of hosting on the guest
       of honor.
       OP offered because she thought it might help alleviate the
       awkwardness. And it was a generous gesture. But, as we see, it
       did not fix anything.
       The whole thing left a bad taste in OP's mouth, and for good
       reason. She was put in a very uncomfortable position,
       cold-shouldered, and had her good nature taken advantage of.
       Lisa comes off very poorly in this scenario, but I have plenty
       of side-eye left for Dave as well.
       [/quote]
       In the OP, she said she took the bill from the waitress and gave
       her the credit card. Dave protested but the OP insisted. I'm not
       sure what Dave was suppose to do other than grab it from the
       waitress and fight for it. And then the OP insisting again. It
       can be an endless circle.
       It may be my experience growing up, but every adult had
       knock-out drag-out fights over the bill. Screaming was involved.
       Us kids promised we will not do that when we grew up. And we
       didn't because all their show of "generosity" was embarrassing.
       It's only been a week. Hopefully Dave will make up for it in
       another way.
       [/quote]
       Well, I'm sorry you had that experience and were raised by
       people who thought screaming at each other in public was
       appropriate. The fact that the grownups in your life were
       chronically rude doesn't change the fact that Dave failed in his
       basic duties as a host, and was rude to the OP.
       All he had to do was hand over his card to the waitress and tell
       her that he was hosting. But apparently that was just too hard.
       Or perhaps he was also raised by screamers, and didn't know what
       to do. That's unfortunate.
       It was still rude.
       I wouldn't want to eat the plate with sake on it any more than
       Lisa did. But a grownup should know how to deal with minor
       inconveniences or mishaps without pouting like a three-year-old.
       My elementary-aged children can handle themselves in public
       better than this woman did. At least when they are "done" and
       want to go home, they whisper to me and don't put on a show in
       front of company!
       OP, I hope you feel better about your own behavior. You didn't
       do anything wrong, and it was not your fault that Lisa spoiled
       the evening for herself and everyone else. I think your "cards
       only" plan is very sound.
       #Post#: 17057--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: jpcher Date: October 24, 2018, 4:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       (Thank you, HenrysMom, for clarifying my post. I'm so glad that
       I was wrong.)
       #Post#: 17066--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: katiekat2009 Date: October 24, 2018, 6:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well, this is an etiquette board and I don't know of any
       instance where Ms. Manners would say it was ok to squirt a
       liquid across the table into someone's mouth. I'm guessing you
       did it one to many times. I would offer my sincerest apology to
       "Lisa" if you want to continue to go out with them.
       #Post#: 17067--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: Hanna Date: October 24, 2018, 6:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=katiekat2009 link=topic=762.msg17066#msg17066
       date=1540425213]
       Well, this is an etiquette board and I don't know of any
       instance where Ms. Manners would say it was ok to squirt a
       liquid across the table into someone's mouth. I'm guessing you
       did it one to many times. I would offer my sincerest apology to
       "Lisa" if you want to continue to go out with them.
       [/quote]
       Katiekat2009 does it matter at all that Lisa and husband chose a
       venue known for throwing food and squirting saki, and
       specifically known for doing this at guests that are celebrating
       a birthday?
       I have seen people somewhat pressured to participate in the
       spirit of being a good sport. If Lisa has an aversion to this
       kind of thing it’s an odd choice for a birthday dinner.
       #Post#: 17068--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: katiekat2009 Date: October 24, 2018, 7:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Once is cute, two is tolerable but, by the third time and the
       fact that she wasn't able to contain it, it becomes gross. Just
       my opinion. I wouldn't have eaten something someone spit on
       either.
       #Post#: 17072--------------------------------------------------
       Re: When Birthday Dinners go Bad...
       By: Hanna Date: October 24, 2018, 7:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=katiekat2009 link=topic=762.msg17068#msg17068
       date=1540425746]
       Once is cute, two is tolerable but, by the third time and the
       fact that she wasn't able to contain it, it becomes gross. Just
       my opinion. I wouldn't have eaten something someone spit on
       either.
       [/quote]
       Does that mean you think Lisa was in the clear for the way she
       handled it?
       *****************************************************
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page